Discussion:
Taking a ride on the Way-Back machine
(too old to reply)
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-12 10:35:35 UTC
Permalink
In: http://groups.google.com/group/talk.bizarre/msg/26e5b92777501d6f

David James Polewka wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

>> Now one more time, what _useful_ have you done in
>> the last, say, 20 years?

> Pooh pooh to you, too, windbag!

We will take your failure to provide a substantive answer
as an admission taken paraphrased from the song "War".

"War. Hunh!"

What is Pollutka good for?

"Absolutely nothing!".

HTH

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-12 17:08:35 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> In:http://groups.google.com/group/talk.bizarre/msg/26e5b92777501d6f
>
> David James Polewka wrote:
> > Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
> >> what useful have you done in
> >> the last, say, 20 years?
> > Pooh pooh to you, too, windbag!
>
> I'll take your failure to provide an answer...

I've said many times I was a programmer
for 10+ years, and then worked 3rd shift at
the local detox for 6 years. Go ahead and
put some negative spin on that! Don't forget
to B L OOOOOOO W H A R D E RRRRRRR ! !
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-12 20:30:06 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> David James Polewka wrote:
>>> Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

>>>> what useful have you done in the last, say, 20
>>>> years?

>>> Pooh pooh to you, too, windbag!

>> I'll take your failure to provide an answer...

> I've said many times I was a programmer
> for 10+ years, and then worked 3rd shift at
> the local detox for 6 years. Go ahead and
> put some negative spin on that!

Oh, most happily, we've danced around this maypole of
pretended accomplishments of yours before.

Yeah, I remember all that. You couldn't show a
single bit of usable output or contribution to the
well-being of humankind from your programming
"career", just a bunch of pictures of "showed up for
work on a regular basis" plaques, and your "work at
the detox center" is just you gulling still more
debased drunks into the AA brainwashing dumbed down
god cult that warped your own mind beyond function.

> Don't forget to B L OOOOOOO W H A R D E RRRRRRR ! !

If you have anything to be proud of in your life,
besides harassing your father into an early grave,
you can trot it out here any time now.

Otherwise, as before, I'll continue to take your
lack of pertinent response as a confession that you,
as a brain burned drunk, have _never_ had or done
anything to contribute to humanity, making you the
only blowhard in the game.

Put up or shut up, Pollutka.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-13 06:10:22 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > I've said many times I was a programmer
> > for 10+ years, and then worked 3rd shift at
> > the local detox for 6 years.
>
> Yeah, I remember all that. You couldn't show a
> single bit of usable output or contribution to the
> well-being of humankind from your programming
> "career",

I'm not a bloviating pettifogger, like you!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-14 06:59:02 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> I've said many times I was a programmer for 10+
>>> years, and then worked 3rd shift at the local
>>> detox for 6 years.

Luring the unwary into the AA cult? So, you're what,
in your forties, and you have at most ten years of
non-harmful employment to show for your life?

No wonder you were so desperate to kill off your dad
with influenza so you could snaffle his inheritance
before he carelessly spent it all on himself. You
must have been dead broke and sinking fast.

>> Yeah, I remember all that. You couldn't show a
>> single bit of usable output or contribution to
>> the well-being of humankind from your programming
>> "career",

> I'm not a bloviating pettifogger, like you!

And yet I've managed to document my contributions to
humankind in pretty fair detail here, yet your
wasted life leaves you nothing worth mentioning to
show for yourself? Hey, I even found your credit for
an artifact contribution to the USS Wasp display, it
isn't like I haven't been looking around.

So, in conclusion, your response when asked "what
are you good for, what have you ever been good for"
remains "absolutely nothing", just like in the song?

Just want to make that perfectly clear.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-15 15:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> So your response when asked "what are you
> good for, what have you ever been good for"
> remains "absolutely nothing"?

Our common welfare should come first;
peace depends upon unity!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-15 22:03:01 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>> So your response when asked "what are you
>> good for, what have you ever been good for"
>> remains "absolutely nothing"?

> Our common welfare should come first;
> peace depends upon unity!

So, by your continued evasions, I'm understanding
that your estimate of your value to the human
species remains "absolutely worthless". Is that
correct, or do you have some well hidden significant
contribution to the well being of humanity, done by
you, that you'd like to mention somewhere along in
here?

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-15 22:52:07 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 15, 6:03 pm, Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> >> So your response when asked "what are you
> >> good for, what have you ever been good for"
> >> remains "absolutely nothing"?
> > Our common welfare should come first;
> > peace depends upon unity!
>
> I'm understanding that your estimate of your
> value remains "absolutely worthless". Is that
> correct, or do you have some contribution to
> the well being of humanity that you'd like
> to mention?

I just gave it to you! You're ignoring it!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-15 23:11:29 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>>>> So your response when asked "what are you good
>>>> for, what have you ever been good for" remains
>>>> "absolutely nothing"?

>>> Our common welfare should come first; peace
>>> depends upon unity!

>> [so, again, "nothing"?]

> I just gave it to you! You're ignoring it!

Well, no, that's no "contribution", your skill at
social planning is right up there with your skill at
choosing substances to which to become addicted:
awful.

Putting forth fatuous platitudes that cannot be
translated to plans of action in the real world is
not a "contribution to humankind" by you, it is just
a further contribution to your reputation as a
public laughingstock on Usenet.

Remember in your claims that such a "plan" is a
meaningful contribution, that neither the League of
Nations nor the United Nations, each created to
provide "unity", have done anything to make peace on
Earth suddenly occur.

Now, one more time, have you any evidence that you
have made some meaningful contribution to humankind?

Or said another way, do you any evidence that you
are not the _first_ person in the world who should
be removed in any plan like the ones you've promoted
of "population control by killing off the useless"?

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-16 03:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Our common welfare should come first;
> >>> peace depends upon unity!
>
> that's no "contribution", your skill at
> social planning is

If you want to establish unity, trying
to do it by attacking everyone's belief
in God is about the worst possible choice!
If you want to just wallow in notoriety,
_then_ it's a good one!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-16 08:19:08 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

I see you are again evading the challenge to produce
proof that you have ever done anything worthwhile to
benefit humanity. That still leaves your neck as the
first one under the cleaver when the removal of the
"useless" under any of your nutball social schemes
begins.

I'll continue to accept that evasion as your
ongoing admission that you are utterly worthless to
humanity.

> If you want to establish unity,

Lucky me, I don't think "Pollutka-unified marching
morons" is a good goal for humankind.

> trying to do it by attacking everyone's belief in
> God is about the worst possible choice!

"Everyone" doesn't believe in God, nutball. The
world is full of incompatible religions, each full
of proofs the others are all mistaken.

The Occam's Razor most likely result of all that
disagreement is that no religion is true.

Mix that with the inability of a single religion to
produce the god or gods it claims to exist, and the
falseness of all religions becomes as near a
certainty as not to matter.

Go on to notice that a great many of humankinds wars
are quarrels over whose "god" should prevail,
sometimes even hilarious (to an outside observer)
murderous slaughters over the details of how to
worship the very same god, as between Sunnis and
Shiites, and you will realize that talking the
brainwashed back out of the "god" belief is indeed a
good start on reducing war.

> If you want to just wallow in notoriety, _then_
> it's a good one!

I'm just one person not gullible enough to believe
the "god" lie, among millions more.

That doesn't make me notorious.

If you are so jealous of my "notoriety", try doing
something worthwhile yourself to benefit humankind.

Your nutball social recommendations most definitely
are not the way to go.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-17 02:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> you're evading the challenge to produce
> proof you've ever done anything worthwhile
> to benefit humanity.

I've been playing sports for 48 years!
The world loves sports! You haven't
played sports for 48 freakin' days!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-17 06:00:13 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> you're evading the challenge to produce proof
>> you've ever done anything worthwhile to benefit
>> humanity.

> I've been playing sports for 48 years!

And that evasion has what to do with you ever doing
anything to benefit humanity?

Anyway, I didn't know that lushing your life away
was a "sport".

> The world loves sports!

The world loves getting stinking drunk, too. You
had a point there?

> You haven't played sports for 48 freakin' days!

And once again you lie through your teeth, fool.

Why, oh why do you keep dropping your drawers and
putting your butt into prime target position for
getting it kicked, over and over and over again?

That's a rhetorical question, Pollutka. The answer
is that you are just really that stupid because of
your long bout with alcoholism.

Sports in which I have competed:

Badminton
Basketball
Bowling
Fencing
Flag football
Horseshoes
Running, distances from sprints to one mile.
Swimming (breast stroke)
Tennis
Volleyball
Whaleboat racing (team rowing)
Wrestling

Sports in which I have actively participated, but
not "competed":

Bicycling
Fishing, fresh water, ice, and salt water
Gymnastics
Hiking
Hockey
Hunting (deer, mostly, some rabbits and squirrels)
Ice skating
Long distance running
Mountain climbing
Race-walking
Rowing small boats, paddling canoes
Sailing small boats
Scuba diving
Snorkling
Target shooting: rifle, pistol, bow-and-arrow
Weight lifting

Sports in which I have participated to help others
compete:

Soccer, as a referee and assistant coach
Wrestling, as a publicist and setup/tear-down
laborer

As usual, you lying piece of trash, FOAD.

Meanwhile, you have yet to document any contribution
by you to the well-being of humankind. So far,
you've put forward stuff that pretty much anyone who
breathes, does. Where is your shining contribution
that makes you think you have a right to tell others
how to run their lives?

xanthian; I'm sure I've forgotten to put about as
many sports in those lists as I included.

[I've also played competitive games, including
chess, contract bridge, whist, hearts, spades,
pinochle, gin rummy, canasta, euchre, and lots
of board games, but those aren't really
"sports".]
trog69
2008-06-17 09:09:22 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 16, 11:00 pm, Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> >> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> you're evading the challenge to produce proof
> >> you've ever done anything worthwhile to benefit
> >> humanity.
> > I've been playing sports for 48 years!
>
> And that evasion has what to do with you ever doing
> anything to benefit humanity?
>
> Anyway, I didn't know that lushing your life away
> was a "sport".
>
> > The world loves sports!
>
> The world loves getting stinking drunk, too. You
> had a point there?
>
> > You haven't played sports for 48 freakin' days!
>
> And once again you lie through your teeth, fool.
>
> Why, oh why do you keep dropping your drawers and
> putting your butt into prime target position for
> getting it kicked, over and over and over again?
>
> That's a rhetorical question, Pollutka. The answer
> is that you are just really that stupid because of
> your long bout with alcoholism.
>
> Sports in which I have competed:
>
> Badminton
> Basketball
> Bowling
> Fencing
> Flag football
> Horseshoes
> Running, distances from sprints to one mile.
> Swimming (breast stroke)
> Tennis
> Volleyball
> Whaleboat racing (team rowing)
> Wrestling
>
> Sports in which I have actively participated, but
> not "competed":
>
> Bicycling
> Fishing, fresh water, ice, and salt water
> Gymnastics
> Hiking
> Hockey
> Hunting (deer, mostly, some rabbits and squirrels)
> Ice skating
> Long distance running
> Mountain climbing
> Race-walking
> Rowing small boats, paddling canoes
> Sailing small boats
> Scuba diving
> Snorkling
> Target shooting: rifle, pistol, bow-and-arrow
> Weight lifting
>
> Sports in which I have participated to help others
> compete:
>
> Soccer, as a referee and assistant coach
> Wrestling, as a publicist and setup/tear-down
> laborer
>
> As usual, you lying piece of trash, FOAD.
>
> Meanwhile, you have yet to document any contribution
> by you to the well-being of humankind. So far,
> you've put forward stuff that pretty much anyone who
> breathes, does. Where is your shining contribution
> that makes you think you have a right to tell others
> how to run their lives?
>
> xanthian; I'm sure I've forgotten to put about as
> many sports in those lists as I included.
>
> [I've also played competitive games, including
> chess, contract bridge, whist, hearts, spades,
> pinochle, gin rummy, canasta, euchre, and lots
> of board games, but those aren't really
> "sports".]

What...no billiards? Why ya pansy-assed couch potato, you! ;)
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-17 23:34:42 UTC
Permalink
trog69 <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>>>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>>> you're evading the challenge to produce proof
>>>> you've ever done anything worthwhile to benefit
>>>> humanity.

>>> I've been playing sports for 48 years!

>> And that evasion has what to do with you ever
>> doing anything to benefit humanity?

>> Anyway, I didn't know that lushing your life away
>> was a "sport".

>>> The world loves sports!

>> The world loves getting stinking drunk, too. You
>> had a point there?

>>> You haven't played sports for 48 freakin' days!

>> And once again you lie through your teeth, fool.

>> Why, oh why do you keep dropping your drawers and
>> putting your butt into prime target position for
>> getting it kicked, over and over and over again?

>> That's a rhetorical question, Pollutka. The
>> answer is that you are just really that stupid
>> because of your long bout with alcoholism.

>> Sports in which I have competed:

>> Badminton
>> Basketball
>> Bowling
>> Fencing
>> Flag football
>> Horseshoes
>> Running, distances from sprints to one mile.
>> Swimming (breast stroke)
>> Tennis
>> Volleyball
>> Whaleboat racing (team rowing)
>> Wrestling

>> Sports in which I have actively participated, but
>> not "competed":

>> Bicycling
>> Fishing, fresh water, ice, and salt water
>> Gymnastics
>> Hiking
>> Hockey
>> Hunting (deer, mostly, some rabbits and squirrels)
>> Ice skating
>> Long distance running
>> Mountain climbing
>> Race-walking
>> Rowing small boats, paddling canoes
>> Sailing small boats
>> Scuba diving
>> Snorkling
>> Target shooting: rifle, pistol, bow-and-arrow
>> Weight lifting

>> Sports in which I have participated to help
>> others compete:

>> Soccer, as a referee and assistant coach
>> Wrestling, as a publicist and setup/tear-down
>> laborer

>> As usual, you lying piece of trash, FOAD.

>> Meanwhile, you have yet to document any
>> contribution by you to the well-being of
>> humankind. So far, you've put forward stuff that
>> pretty much anyone who breathes, does. Where is
>> your shining contribution that makes you think
>> you have a right to tell others how to run their
>> lives?
>
>> xanthian; I'm sure I've forgotten to put about as
>> many sports in those lists as I included.

>> [I've also played competitive games,
>> including chess, contract bridge, whist,
>> hearts, spades, pinochle, gin rummy,
>> canasta, euchre, and lots of board games,
>> but those aren't really "sports".]

> What...no billiards? Why ya pansy-assed couch
> potato, you! ;)

Oh, yeah, pool, billiards, snooker, but not since my
vision got too bad to be good at them. Also
foosball, darts, whatever the verb is for bouncing
on a pogo stick, stilt-walking, shot put, discus,
and shuffleboard, now that I think of it.

I did say I'd have forgotten about as many of them as I
included, so that's probably still not nearly the
complete list.

Being as old as I am means most of the lists you
make about your life are of necessity long ones not
easily remembered (my list of computer programming
languages learned and used had passed a gross, last
I was able to count them, by now I probably couldn't
list a third of them from memory any more).

Do I think any of that constitutes a "significant
contribution to humanity"? Hell no, not even where I
was helping making youth soccer and wrestling
possible to happen; that's a contribution, but not a
contribution not shared by a big fraction of
humankind.

Anyway, the main point was just to document Yet
Another Instance of Pollutka's Pathological Lying.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-17 11:25:56 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> Where is your shining contribution that
> makes you think you have a right to tell
> others how to run their lives?

You're telling future generations they
have to live in more crowded conditions!
What gives you the right to do that?
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-17 23:39:27 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>> Where is your shining contribution that
>> makes you think you have a right to tell
>> others how to run their lives?

> You're telling future generations they
> have to live in more crowded conditions!

[This evasion does not answer the above
question. It is not the case that your
audience are all as stupid as you are,
and so likely to fall for such tactics
by you, while you _are_ stupid enought
to keep trying such unworkable evasion
tactics even though they keep failing
time after time.]

No moron, what I'm doing is telling _you_
that your entirely unimplementable plans
for compelling population control will
never replace the volutnary plans already
documented to work.

> What gives you the right to do that?

Since I did no such thing, this is just
one more instance of you getting caught
lying in public.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-18 03:22:12 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > You're telling future generations they
> > have to live in more crowded conditions!
>
> No, what I'm doing is telling _you_
> that your plans for population control will
> never replace the voluntary plans already
> documented to work.

Yeah, they work great at passing the buck
on dealing with the problem!


> > What gives you the right to do that?
>
> Since I did no such thing, ...

If you don't support a freeze on population,
you're supporting increased crowding in
the future!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-18 06:49:36 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> You're telling future generations they
>>> have to live in more crowded conditions!

Point out anywhere I've said that in those words, or
once again admit that you are a pathological liar,
Pollutka.

>> No, what I'm doing is telling _you_ that your
>> madman's plans for population control will never
>> replace the voluntary plans already documented to
>> work.

> Yeah, they work great at passing the buck
> on dealing with the problem!

Since the problem is self-solving when societal and
personal prosperity exists (to provide some security
in old age besides the support of ones numerous
offspring) and affordable/free access to voluntarily
conception control is available, particularly to
women, just _who_ do you think is "passing the
buck"?

Might it be the pathologically stupid people who
reject the solutions that have now lead many nations
to negative population growth, in favor of
tyrannical and unimplementable alternatives?

Why yes, it is _you_ who are "passing the buck",
Pollutka, fighting with all your might against
working population control techniques because they
offend your septic political agenda and god squad
mentality.

>>> What gives you the right to do that?

>> Since I did no such thing, ...

Caught in a lie, you change the subject, again as
always.

> If you don't support a freeze on population,
> you're supporting increased crowding in the
> future!

No, that's just you telling another lie.

Your brain-burned alcoholic's opinions don't
represent reality, Pollutka, no matter how many
times you cut and paste them unchanged to Usenet.

Rejecting your _unworkable_ population control
proposals is not support for overpopulation, it is
rejection of YOU and YOUR STUPIDITY, full stop.

I and many other correspondents here support sane
population planning, something you would not
recognize if it were hanging from your bright blue
baboon's butt by its razor sharp interlocking grip
fangs.

xanthian.

Give it up, Pollutka, you are too stupid to win,
and too stupid even to recognize that you've lost.
(David P.)
2008-06-18 16:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > If you don't support a freeze on population,
> > you're supporting increased crowding in the
> > future!
>
> No, that's just you telling another lie.

There are only 3 possibilities at any moment
in time:
a reduction, a leveling off, or an increase!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 07:38:08 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> If you don't support a freeze on population,
>>> you're supporting increased crowding in the
>>> future!

>> No, that's just you telling another lie.

> There are only 3 possibilities at any moment
> in time:
> a reduction, a leveling off, or an increase!

What does that have to do with the lie you told
above, you dancing blue butted baboon? Your
pretended logical implication above is no such
thing, just one more of your lies.

Your claim "if you don't support concept A, then
you support entirely non-exclusive concept B" is
a logical fallacy, one of those kind of lies that
only point out how incredibly stupid the liar is.

I could, for example, not support a freeze on
population while supporting exporting the bulk of
the population to space habitats capable of holding
trillions instead of billions of human beings.

I could, for example, not support a "freeze" on
population because I know that coercive mechanisms
for population control are an unworkable solution,
and favor voluntary, documented to work choices
instead.

You ignore the sane choice: improve other parts of
societies that as an independent consequence lead to
voluntary population contractions.

Even in China, land of the coercive one family one
child forced abortion laws, the combination of
new-found prosperity for some, and easily acquired
birth control, is finding career women, now that
profitable careers are even possible in China,
choosing to remain childless in favor of career
advancement.

Study that carefully, Pollutka: a nation with one of
the worst overpopulation problems in the world is
following the "prosperity + voluntary conception
control accessibility = smaller families" paradigm
that is working all over the world where it has been
tried, and not a single bit of "withhold influenza
vaccine" idiocy was needed to make it happen.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-21 03:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
>Since the problem is self-solving when societal &
>personal prosperity exists & affordable/free access
>to voluntarily conception control is available,

And it's NOT self-solving when prosperity
DOESN'T exist!
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-17 13:51:23 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've been playing sports for 48 years!
> > The world loves sports!
> > You haven't played sports for 48 _days_!
>
> Sports in which I have competed:

I've been on a bowling team & softball team
for the last 20 years, and a baseball team
for the last 15 years.
What have you done in the last 15-20 years?
.
.
--
Ace Lightning
2008-06-17 14:02:45 UTC
Permalink
(David P.) wrote:
> I've been on a bowling team & softball team
> for the last 20 years, and a baseball team
> for the last 15 years.
> What have you done in the last 15-20 years?

don't forget that, a couple of years ago, he pedaled a
bicycle, pulling a trailer with all his worldly goods
on it, over the mountains (in the desert) from California
to Phoenix, AZ.
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-18 00:24:15 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> I've been playing sports for 48 years!

So what?

Do you really think that constitutes a "significant
contribution to humankind"?

Everybody not too crippled up to do so plays sports.

That includes babies playing catch by pushing balls
across the rug, the bocce ball players in their 80s
and 90s, double amputees playing basketball in
wheelchairs, and the mentally impaired participating
in the special olympics.

>>> The world loves sports!

And again you deleted my answer debunking your lie
while trying to maintain your already defeated lie.
The onlookers are keeping track of your dishonesty,
Pollutka, that's what's meant by you having a
reputation beneath contempt, all hand crafted
entirely by you.

Just because the world "loves" something doesn't
make participating in it a "significant contribution
to humankind".

>>> You haven't played sports for 48 _days_!

A lie by you instantly debunkable; again you delete
the derision with which I destroyed your lie, while
copying your lie intact to your followup. Your
intellectual honesty is most notible for being
exactly as extant as the god you worship: not at
all.

>> Sports in which I have competed:

We will notice with laughter that you were so
embarrassed by that list proving you a liar, that
you deleted it, but left your lie entirely intact,
above. Your dishonesty is the stuff of legends,
Pollutka.

> I've been on a bowling team & softball team for
> the last 20 years, and a baseball team for the
> last 15 years.

Was that where you picked up your habit of
alcoholism, at beerball games?

> What have you done in the last 15-20 years?

Oh, let's start with climbing:

Telescope Peak
Lasen Volcano
Cloud's Rest
Mount Whitney

All within the last five years.

Add bicycling 450 miles during April 2005.

The list goes on, moron, you are yet again trying to
push a rope, and making the usual public fool of
yourself in the process.

Give it up, Pollutka, you are simply too stupid to
play this game. You are also too dishonest to post
to Usenet at all.

xanthian.

===== selected archival quality quote by, =====
===== about, or appropriate to, this author =====

Diverse people have different skills.
Kent Paul Dolan's skill is being smart.
-- Mary Lee McGough <***@csufresno.com>
Founder and Leader of the FSU Poetry Jam
(David P.)
2008-06-18 03:19:45 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> >> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>> I've been playing sports for 48 years!
>
> So what?
>
> Everybody not too crippled up to do so plays sports.

No, there are tons of people who don't
play sports, mostly the 30-35% that are
obese, like you.

> >>> The world loves sports!
>
> Just because the world "loves" something doesn't
> make participating in it a "significant contribution
> to humankind".

Of course it does!


> > I've been on a bowling team & softball team for
> > the last 20 years, and a baseball team for the
> > last 15 years.
> > What have you done in the last 15-20 years?
>
> Telescope Peak
> Lasen Volcano
> Cloud's Rest
> Mount Whitney
>
> All within the last five years.
> Add bicycling 450 miles during April 2005.

None of which are team sports, so what
the hell, it's just all about you,
as usual!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-18 06:34:37 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>>>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>>>> I've been playing sports for 48 years!

Big whoop.

>> So what?

>> Everybody not too crippled up to do so plays
>> sports.

> No, there are tons of people who don't play
> sports, mostly the 30-35% that are obese, like
> you.

And yet again you lie, twice this time.

1) You claim to be part of a bowling team, so you
are already well aware of the millions of the obese
who find bowling an attractive sport because it does
not require particularly much exertion. Neither does
playing catch, pitching horseshoes, lawn darts, or
any of a large number of other "non-aerobic" sports,
all of which are therefore attractive to the obese.

You simply went ahead and lied even though you
yourself had the contrary evidence well in hand.

2) I'm nowhere close to "obese". My body mass index
is 25.8, "obese", depending on whom you believe,
starts at a BMI of 30 or 40. My personal target BMI
is 20.8, so I'm quite unhappy with being this
overweight _by my own measure_, but that doesn't
make me obese.

http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aobese
http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm

>>> What have you done in the last 15-20 years?

>> Climbed:

>> Telescope Peak
>> Lasen Volcano
>> Cloud's Rest
>> Mount Whitney

>> All within the last five years.
>> Add bicycling 450 miles during April 2005.

Pulling 450 pounds of luggage, including over
some fairly high mountain passes, I suppose I
should have added.

> None of which are team sports,

1) Still you dodge and evade providing to the
onlookers any significant contribution you've
made to the well-being of humankind.

2) So, you've pretended I didn't participate in
sports, then, when you were caught lying massively
yet another time, you first clip out all my proofs
that you are lying, then when proved the liar again,
you move the goalposts?

Intellectual honesty and you aren't even the most
distant of acquaintances, are you, Pollutka?

Since when is participation in sports limited to
team sports?

You are and will ever remain a pathological lying
sociopath, Pollutka.

> so what the hell, it's just all about you,
> as usual!

1) Just like your megalomaniac plans to kill off a
large fraction of the human species by fomenting
planet-wide plagues is all about your anger at
senior citizen me for constantly holding you to
account for your idiocy, your anger at your dad for
using _his_ money to take care of _his_ health,
instead of letting himself die so you'd get a bigger
inheritance from him?

2) Yep, I've got an ego. What else is new?

My having an ego doesn't make you sane or smart,
though, Pollutka.

You remain a stupid sociopath, one of the worst
possible combinations: too dissociated from normal
human sensitivities to recognize unethical and
immoral behavior when you engage in it, too stupid
to arrange not to get caught.

So far, you continue to prove what you are worth to
be best described as "absolutely nothing", and
reinforce that impression with every lie and evasion
you employ to argue otherwise.

You can't win, Pollutka, you're simply too utterly
stupid to have a chance winning an argument against
any person of ordinary intelligence.

Correctly blame your alcoholism, or incorrectly
blame all the enemies your misbehavior earns you,
for your stupidity and constant humiliating defeats,
the facts won't change no matter how you flail about
foaming more and more of your idiocy onto Usenet.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-18 17:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > No, there are tons of people who don't play
> > sports, mostly the 30-35% that are obese, like
> > you.
>
> 1) You claim to be part of a bowling team,
> so you already know that millions of obese
> find bowling an attractive sport because it
> doesn't require particularly much exertion.

Not in leagues around here! There's a few
overweight people; the young ones do
alright; the older ones' knees tend to
give out. Maybe the obese come to bowl
once or twice a year.


> 2) I'm nowhere close to "obese".
> My BMI is 25.8,

The fat's all in your head!
25 pounds of it!
.
.
--
Christopher A. Lee
2008-06-18 18:11:48 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:48:04 -0700 (PDT), "(David P.)"
<***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > No, there are tons of people who don't play
>> > sports, mostly the 30-35% that are obese, like
>> > you.
>>
>> 1) You claim to be part of a bowling team,
>> so you already know that millions of obese
>> find bowling an attractive sport because it
>> doesn't require particularly much exertion.
>
>Not in leagues around here! There's a few
>overweight people; the young ones do
>alright; the older ones' knees tend to
>give out. Maybe the obese come to bowl
>once or twice a year.

Obesity isn't the only reason for knees to give out.

I played football (soccer) until I was 42. Pounding up and down
pitches for 90 minutes that were often very hard. Twisting and
turning at the knees.

In my teens I ran the mile in summer, and cross-country during winter.
Which in London suburbs meant a lot of road running between fields and
parks.

Both of which were murder on the knees.

When you get older all the injuries you made vanish with sheer will
power, come back to haunt you.
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 07:56:28 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> No, there are tons of people who don't play
>>> sports, mostly the 30-35% that are obese, like
>>> you.

>> 1) You claim to be part of a bowling team, so you
>> already know that millions of obese find bowling
>> an attractive sport because it doesn't require
>> particularly much exertion.

> Not in leagues around here! There's a few
> overweight people; the young ones do alright; the
> older ones' knees tend to give out. Maybe the
> obese come to bowl once or twice a year.

So what? You just confessed that you are caught
lying; yet again. "Play sports" doesn't contain a
frequency requirement, so your contention that the
obese "don't play sports" is admitted even by you to
be a lie.

Odd how the rest of the proof that you were lying
about the obese not participating in sports got so
conveniently snipped by pathologically
intellectually dishonest you because you had no
answer to it, either:

>> Neither does playing catch, pitching horseshoes,
>> lawn darts, or any of a large number of other
>> "non-aerobic" sports, all of which are therefore
>> attractive to the obese.

So, this additional proof that you were lying stands
unchallenged by you.

>> 2) I'm nowhere close to "obese".
>> My BMI is 25.8,

> The fat's all in your head!
> 25 pounds of it!

In other words you were caught lying again, calling
me obese when that is factually false, and are
making an evasive response to avoid confronting your
lie like any un-neutered male could do.

Figures, that's all you ever do anyway, lie, get
caught lying, try to change the subject with another
lie, lather, rinse, repeat.

You are such a pathetic loser, Pollutka, your
manhood sold cheap for a lot of cheap binges.

xanthian.
mr. bad judgment
2008-06-18 13:01:22 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 17, 8:51 am, "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> > "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > I've been playing sports for 48 years!
> > > The world loves sports!
> > > You haven't played sports for 48 _days_!
>
> > Sports in which I have competed:
>
> I've been on a bowling team & softball team
> for the last 20 years, and a baseball team
> for the last 15 years.
> What have you done in the last 15-20 years?
> .
> .
> --

my dear fellow! here's kent's summary of recent accomplishments:
-------------------
I am a dynamic figure, often seen scaling walls and crushing ice. I
have been known to remodel train stations on my lunch breaks, making
them more efficient in the area of heat retention. I translate ethnic
slurs for Cuban refugees, I write award-winning operas, I manage time
efficiently. Occasionally, I tread water for three days in a row. I
woo women with my sensuous and godlike trombone playing, I can pilot
bicycles up severe inclines with unflagging speed, and I can cook
Thirty-Minute Brownies in twenty minutes. I am an expert in stucco, a
veteran in love, and an outlaw in Peru. Using only a hoe and a large
glass of water, I once single-handedly defended a small village in the
Amazon Basin from a horde of ferocious army ants. I play bluegrass
cello, I was scouted by the Mets. I am the subject of numerous
documentaries. When I'm bored, I build large suspension bridges in my
yard. I enjoy urban hang gliding. On Wednesdays, after work, I repair
electrical appliances free of charge. I am an abstract artist, a
concrete analyst, and a ruthless bookie. Critics worldwide swoon over
my original line of corduroy evening wear. I don't perspire. I am a
private citizen, yet I receive fan mail. I have been caller number
nine and have won the weekend passes. Last summer I toured New Jersey
with a traveling centrifugal-force demonstration. I bat .400. My deft
floral arrangements have earned me fame in international circles.
Children trust me. I can hurl tennis rackets at small moving objects
with deadly accuracy. I once read Paradise Lost, Moby Dick, and David
Copperfield in one day and still had time to refurbish an entire
dining room that evening. I know the exact location of every food item
in the supermarket. I have performed covert operations for the CIA. I
sleep once a week; when I do sleep, I sleep in a chair. While on
vacation in Canada, I successfully negotiated with a group of
terrorists who had seized a small bakery. The laws of physics do not
apply to me. I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are
all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact
origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to
write it down. I have made extraordinary four-course meals using only
a Mouli and a toaster oven. I breed prize-winning clams. I have won
bullfights in San Juan, cliff-diving competitions in Sri Lanka, and
spelling bees at the Kremlin. I have played Hamlet, I have performed
open-heart surgery, and I have spoken with Elvis.*
-------------------
*some of you have probably seen this before
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 06:20:13 UTC
Permalink
"mr. bad judgment" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> my dear fellow! here's kent's summary of recent
> accomplishments:

Well, no, _here_ is Kent's summary of "recent"
accomplishments, published way back in 2003:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.homeless/msg/71428cce28178981?dmode=source

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ft7g6

The pertinent part of me proving another fool who
deprecated my accomplishments to be a fool by
listing a few of them:

>:- [deprecate, deprecate]

:- Umm, let's count the score again, shall we?

:- Three grown kids, one with a master's degree,
:- one going back to school because she got a
:- grant to do her doctorate, all three out of
:- jail, gainfully employed, matched with life
:- partners one way or another and reasonably
:- happy.

:- One grandchild, bright and happy.

:- One small child, reading four years ahead of
:- his grade level and sitting in on classes at
:- that level off and on to read with the kids
:- there.

:- A bachelor's degree of my own and parts of two
:- masters degrees, plus gobs of other education
:- in a wide variety of disciplines.

:- A completed career which pays me a pension
:- easily enough to support me in fair style if
:- courts hadn't later taken it upon themselves to
:- give it to others, in blatant violation of a
:- constitutional provision against "bills of
:- attainder".

:- Three international standards written in part
:- by me still in use 26 years after I started
:- helping write them and one other that I helped
:- begin.

:- Credit for motivating the survival of the
:- Fortran programming language into the third
:- millennium, from among the people in charge of
:- making that happen.

:- A list of inventions that covers several pages,
:- none patented because that's not how I work,
:- but contributed to the common good.

:- Only almost complete incompetence in playing
:- nine musical instruments, in handling four
:- other human languages beyond my own.

:- Participation in some of the most exciting
:- technical programming available in the world
:- during my career.

:- Published credit for avoiding the loss of tens
:- to hundreds of thousands of lives over a decade
:- for improvements my software allowed in the day
:- to day forecasting of tropical cyclone
:- behavior.

:- Tutoring of one woman from mainland China
:- through her master's degree in computer
:- science, pro bono, allowing her to continue to
:- finish her doctorate and take her skills home
:- to help improve the field in her country of
:- birth.

:- Tutoring of hundreds of other students, for
:- free, in math, chemistry, computer science,
:- biology, linguistics, et cetera.

:- Support of a wife suffering cancer with much of
:- my income and emotional capital long enough
:- that science advances turned her death-sentence
:- cancer into a nuisance level cancer before the
:- death sentence could be carried out, and which
:- sentence she has now outlived by over a decade.

:- Loads of effusive praise in a wide variety of
:- technical fields for tutorials I've written and
:- published there, which remain part of the
:- persistent archive of Usenet available for
:- general reference and use essentially forever.

:- Major contributions to the structure,
:- governence, survival, and habits of Usenet,
:- still very much in force. Published credit in a
:- (sociology) technical journal for one such
:- innovation (so I was told by the authors, I
:- never saw it).

:- Specifically all the *.advocacy newsgroups are
:- my invention, and last I counted several years
:- ago there were 28 of them and more added each
:- year. Specifically over a dozen newsgroups
:- shepherded through their election process by me
:- to be added permanently to Usenet.
:- Specifically the Usenet Volunteer Voters are
:- widely blamed on me. Specifically the
:- autocancelbots are widely blamed on me.

:- One national computer graphics professional
:- association co-founded and its initial national
:- conference co-administered and co-hosted in
:- Washington DC.

:- One blend professional/popularizing magazine in
:- the field of computer graphics, well respected
:- and still in publication 28 years later,
:- co-launched.

:- Several new mountains, plains, and valleys
:- discovered, mapped, and named (after my family)
:- by me. Granted they have an inconvenient four
:- kilometers of water on top of them.

:- Significant professional contributions in
:- cartography, hydrography, gravimetry, satellite
:- communicatins, meteorology, and oceanography.

:- Portions of structures added by my hands to
:- several dwelling places.

:- Perhaps several hundred trees planted, many
:- still surviving.

:- Fine art, granted none of it very high quality,
:- in literature, poetry, and softcopy images, all
:- done by me, all contributed to the public good.

:- Administrative contributions to the growth and
:- development of FreeBSD.

:- Some in excess of 150 web pages maintained by
:- me for the public good or amusement.

:- Years-long maintenance by me of some of
:- Usenet's shared valuable public software.

:- Free software contributed to the world in a
:- half dozen fields and several languages.

:- Cross fertilization of dozens of scientific
:- disciplines.

:- Error corrections contributed to hundreds of
:- public web sites.

:- Software porting provided for free to several
:- researchers in emergent behavior.

:- That's just the tip of the iceberg. Now let's
:- hear about anything you've done that didn't
:- involve filling your own gut in a real or virtual
:- sense.

And still, Pollutka fails to produce even _one_
significant contribution made to humankind, and
instead answers with such wonderful evasions as
a claim to have played sports for twenty years.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-19 08:48:05 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> here is Kent's summary of accomplishments,
> published way back in 2003:
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ft7g6
>
> Three grown kids,
> One grandchild,
> One small child,
> A bachelor's degree
> A completed career
> Three international standards
> Credit for survival of Fortran
> A list of inventions
> incompetence in playing 9 music instruments,
> handling 4 other languages beyond my own.
> Participation in exciting programming
> software for tropical cyclone behavior.
> Tutoring
> Tutoring
> Support of a wife
> technical tutorials for Usenet
> structure, governence, survival, & habits of Usenet,
> all *.advocacy newsgroups are my invention,
> co-founded professional association
> One magazine co-launched.
> underwater mtns, plains, valleys discovered,
> mapped, and named
> contributions in carto- & hydro-graphy, gravimetry,
> sat comm, meteorology, and oceanography.
> Helped build some houses.
> 100s of trees planted,
> Fine art,
> development of FreeBSD.
> >150 web pages maintained for public good
> maintenance of Usenet's software.
> Freeware
> Cross fertilization of scientific disciplines.
> Error corrections for public web sites.
> Software porting
> That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Every person who has made significant
contributions has a Wikipedia page!
You don't have one! What's up with that?
Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 09:20:18 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>> here is Kent's summary of accomplishments,
>> published way back in 2003:

>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ft7g6

>> Three grown kids,
>> One grandchild,
>> One small child,
>> A bachelor's degree
>> A completed career
>> Three international standards
>> Credit for survival of Fortran
>> A list of inventions
>> incompetence in playing 9 music instruments,
>> handling 4 other languages beyond my own.
>> Participation in exciting programming
>> software for tropical cyclone behavior.
>> Tutoring
>> Tutoring
>> Support of a wife
>> technical tutorials for Usenet
>> structure, governence, survival, & habits of Usenet,
>> all *.advocacy newsgroups are my invention,
>> co-founded professional association
>> One magazine co-launched.
>> underwater mtns, plains, valleys discovered,
>> mapped, and named
>> contributions in carto- & hydro-graphy, gravimetry,
>> sat comm, meteorology, and oceanography.
>> Helped build some houses.
>> 100s of trees planted,
>> Fine art,
>> development of FreeBSD.
>> >150 web pages maintained for public good
>> maintenance of Usenet's software.
>> Freeware
>> Cross fertilization of scientific disciplines.
>> Error corrections for public web sites.
>> Software porting
>> That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Amazing. You have so little intellectual integrity,
you rewrite what I posted and then post your lie
back again attributed to me? What a splendid bad
example you are for mothers to use when warning
their children not to take up boozing as a hobby.

> Every person who has made significant
> contributions has a Wikipedia page!
> You don't have one! What's up with that?
> Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?

Now, thoroughly embarrassed that I have so much to
show for my life, including many significant
contributions to humanity, and you have precisely
nothing of the kind, you go into your frequently
seen insane repetitive cut and paste non sequitur
followups mode, here built around one of the lamest
lies you've ever told.

Just FYI, I told the person who volunteered to write
a Wikipedia page about me "no thank you".

First, I don't crave that particular kind of
attention.

Second, I'm not that important, even to me,
something true of most depressives, so it would be a
waste of bandwidth, the latter a task to which you
seem to have dedicated your remaining hopefully
short life.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-19 16:47:36 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > Every person who has made significant
> > contributions has a Wikipedia page!
> > You don't have one! What's up with that?
> > Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?
>
> thoroughly embarrassed that I have so much to
> show for my life, including many significant
> contributions to humanity, and you have
> precisely nothing of the kind,

I've been going to local prisons, once
a week, since 1995. 75-85% of inmates
are alcoholics or addicts. We have a
bunch here in Chapel Hill who have been
released, and are now working, going to
meetings, and staying clean & sober.
No atheist group ever shows up to
help with recovery & transition!
.
.
--
Christopher A. Lee
2008-06-19 16:56:58 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "(David P.)"
<***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Every person who has made significant
>> > contributions has a Wikipedia page!
>> > You don't have one! What's up with that?
>> > Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?
>>
>> thoroughly embarrassed that I have so much to
>> show for my life, including many significant
>> contributions to humanity, and you have
>> precisely nothing of the kind,
>
>I've been going to local prisons, once
>a week, since 1995. 75-85% of inmates
>are alcoholics or addicts. We have a
>bunch here in Chapel Hill who have been
>released, and are now working, going to
>meetings, and staying clean & sober.
>No atheist group ever shows up to
>help with recovery & transition!

What is it with you morons?

An atheist is simply an individual who isn't theist.
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 19:02:30 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> Every person who has made significant
>>> contributions has a Wikipedia page! You don't
>>> have one! What's up with that? Overinflated
>>> view of yourself, perhaps?

This idiocy was debunked, but of course you just
copied the idiocy forward while deleting the
debunking of it. That's a typical repetitive
intellectually dishonest behavior by you, Pollutka,
but then, you're an obvious sociopath, so I suppose
we can expect nothing better from you.

>> thoroughly embarrassed that I have so much to
>> show for my life, including many significant
>> contributions to humanity, and you have
>> precisely nothing of the kind,

> I've been going to local prisons, once a week,
> since 1995. 75-85% of inmates are alcoholics or
> addicts. We have a bunch here in Chapel Hill who
> have been released, and are now working, going to
> meetings, and staying clean & sober.

Yes, you've already told us you recruit for your AA
nutball dumbed-down-religion cult, whose objective
recovery rate for addicts is no better than the
placebo "do nothing to help" recovery rate, but
whose religious cult brainwashing success when
handed persons vulnerable due to addiction is just
ducky, just like all other cults which seek out the
vulnerable to prey on them. You've also told us your
cult was run off the property because it was
operating in violation of federal law. Are you
putting this forward as your "significant
contribution to humanity".

Do excuse me while I laugh right in your face.

We've already been down the path of this red
herring, Pollutka, do try to keep what's left of
your brain focused if possible. Running in circles
chasing your tail _should_ be behavior restricted
to dogs.

I've taught homeless people how to live on the
street.

I've also provoked a newspaper investigation of
Clovis, California's ludicrous claim that there
were "no homeless in Clovis" so that Clovis
could divert federal monies intended for
assisting the homeless to other uses [the
resulting newspaper story in the Fresno Bee ran
about four pages, with lots of photographs of
the homeless sleeping in Clovis gathering spots
where they could avoid illegal, city ordererd
Clovis police harassment intended to drive them
across city borders to make that false claim a
true one.

I've talked a suicidal woman out of killing
herself.

I don't count this kind of stuff as a
"significant contribution to humanity", this is
just "doing good works", an entirely different
thing.

Since your "good works" are instead what others
would more correctly label as "malicoius mischief",
your chance of passing them off as a "significant
contribution to humanity" are somewhere between zero
and negative probability values.

> No atheist group ever shows up to help with
> recovery & transition!

We are talking about your raggedy useless blue butt,
not the tendency of atheists to stay away from
enterprises involving religious cult indoctrination,
and in general not to gather in titled crowds, since
atheism is an orthogonal choice to other life
choices.

Do try to stay focused.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-19 19:19:20 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've been going to local prisons, once a week,
> > since 1995. 75-85% of inmates are alcoholics or
> > addicts. We have a bunch here in Chapel Hill who
> > have been released, and are now working, going to
> > meetings, and staying clean & sober.
>
> you've already told us you recruit for AA,
> whose recovery rate for addicts is no better
> than the placebo "do nothing to help" rate,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous

[...]
Limitations on research

The study of AA tends to polarize observers into
believers and non-believers, and discussion of AA
often creates argument rather than objective
reflection. Many researchers take a skeptical view
of AA because some of AA's methods are spiritual,
not scientific. A randomized trial of AA is very
difficult because members are self-selected, not
randomly selected. Two opposing types of self-
selection bias are that drinkers may be motivated
to stop drinking before they attend AA, and AA
may attract the more severe and difficult cases.
Control groups with AA versus non-AA subjects
are also difficult because AA is so easily accessible.
[...]
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-19 20:47:28 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > I've been going to local prisons, once a week,
> > since 1995. 75-85% of inmates are alcoholics or
> > addicts. We have a bunch here in Chapel Hill who
> > have been released, and are now working, going to
> > meetings, and staying clean & sober.
>
>I've taught homeless people how to live
>on the street. I've also provoked an
>investigation of Clovis, CA's claim that
>there were no homeless so that Clovis
>could divert federal monies... I've talked
>a suicidal woman out of killing herself.
>I don't count this kind of stuff as a
>"significant contribution to humanity",
>this is just "doing good works", an
>entirely different thing.

While I'm searching the local recycling bins
for ebayable items, I also get Education
Box Tops ($0.10 each), and give to a little
gray-haired lady in Hillsborough to pass
on to her granddaughter's school. We are
number 2 in collections locally.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30377179/aview/boxtops.JPG

http://www.boxtops4education.com/

Grady A Brown Elementary School
Hillsborough, NC
Earnings since 2002: $7,894
Earnings last school year: $2,330
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-20 05:30:05 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> While I'm searching the local recycling bins
> for ebayable items, I also get Education
> Box Tops ($0.10 each), and give to a little
> gray-haired lady in Hillsborough to pass
> on to her granddaughter's school. We are
> number 2 in collections locally.
>
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30377179/aview/boxtops.JPG
>
> http://www.boxtops4education.com/
>
> Grady A Brown Elementary School
> Hillsborough, NC
> Earnings since 2002: $7,894
> Earnings last school year: $2,330

But we beat the #1 school in collections
_last_ year!

North Chatham School
Earnings since 2002: $9,159
Earnings last school year: $2,139
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-20 05:32:19 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
>I've taught homeless people how to
>live on the street.

We teach 'em how to get back into
society and be productive again!
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-20 06:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> You've also told us your cult was run off
> the property because it was operating in
> violation of federal law.

No, the Feds changed the HIPAA regs
so that we couldn't have meetings
with outsiders in a residential
facility, because of confidentiality
issues. We had a lot of ex-clients
who would attend to try to give back.
They told me they really miss those
meetings. We'll have 'em again when
the new community (non-residential)
building is completed. Then there
were those few outsiders who came to
the meetings to try to sell drugs, or
pass drugs or other contraband to the
clients, and the clients who were
there just to try to "beat the system",
...get some R'n'R and whatever else,
not really serious about recovery.
There are several different types:

https://www.faceproject.org/FreshStory/Stories/Jan08/FreshStory-Story-1.html

The typical alcoholic is often portrayed as
an unemployed older skid-row bum with
little if any hope of recovery.

Now the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse
and Alcoholism (NIAAA) has identified
5 distinct subtypes of the disease,
dispelling the popular notion of the
“typical alcoholic.”

Dr. Howard Moss of the NIAAA , lead
author of the study, said, “We found that
young adults comprise the largest group
of alcoholics in this country, and nearly
20% of alcoholics are highly functional
and well-educated with good incomes.
More than half of the alcoholics in the
United States have no multigenerational
family history of the disease, suggesting
that their form of alcoholism is unlikely
to have generic causes.”

The 5 types of alcoholism, according to
the NIAAA are:

1)Young adult subtype, 31.5% of
U.S alcoholics:

These are young adult drinkers with relatively
low rates of co-occurring substance abuse &
other mental disorders, a low rate of family
alcoholism and who rarely seek help for their
drinking.

2)Young, Anti-Social Subtype, 31.5% of
U.S. alcoholics:

Tend to be in their mid-20s, had early onset
of regular drinking and alcohol problems.
More than half come from families w/ alcoholism,
and about half have a psychiatric diagnosis of
Antisocial Personality Disorder. Many have
major depression, bipolar disorder and anxiety
problems. More than 75% smoked cigarettes &
marijuana, and many also had cocaine and opiate
addictions. More than 1/3 seek help for their
drinking.

3)Functional subtype, 19.5% of U.S. alcoholics:

Typically middle-aged, well-educated, with stable
jobs & families. About 1/3 had a multigenerational
family history of alcoholism, about 1/4 had major
depressive illness sometime in their lives and
nearly 50 % are smokers as well.

4)Intermediate Family Subtype, 19% of
U.S. alcoholics:

Middle-aged with about 50% from families with
multigenerational alcoholism. Almost half have
clinical depression, and 20 % have bipolar
disorder. Most of these individuals smoked
cigarettes & nearly 1/5 had problems with
cocaine and marijuana use. Only 25% sought
help for their problem drinking.

5)Chronic Severe Subtype, 9% of U.S. alcoholics:

Comprised mostly of middle-aged individuals who
had early onset of drinking and alcohol problems,
with high rates of Antisocial Personality Disorder
& criminality. Almost 80 % come from families with
multigenerational alcoholism. They have the highest
rate of other psychiatric disorders, including
depression, bipolar disorder & anxiety disorders,
as well as high rates of smoking, and marijuana,
cocaine, & opiate dependence. Two-thirds of these
alcoholics seek help for their drinking problems,
making them the most prevalent type of alcoholic
in treatment.

The authors of this NIAAA study also report that
co-occurring psychiatric and other substance abuse
problems are associated with severity of alcoholism
and entering into treatment.

Attending Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step
programs is the most common form of help-seeking
for drinking problems, but help-seeking remains
relatively rare.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-20 08:32:44 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

> There are several different types:

Scientology has this pretend learned study of
thetans, all these claims _BY THE PROMOTERS_ for
wonderful effectiveness of handing them all your
money in trade for a cure, too, only somehow, under
threat of lawsuits, that effectiveness is not
subject to outside review.

You as a representative of _your_ theistic cult deny
that your supposed effectiveness is even susceptible
to being measured.

You don't see the tiny problem here with trying to
sell AA to skeptics about your own god squad?

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-20 18:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > There are several different types:
>
> Scientology has this pretend learned study of
> thetans, all these claims _BY THE PROMOTERS_ for
> wonderful effectiveness of handing them all your
> money in trade for a cure, too, only somehow, under
> threat of lawsuits, that effectiveness is not
> subject to outside review.

What does the AMA say about Scientology?

"Hunh! Absolutely nothing!".
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-21 01:17:47 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

> What does the AMA say about Scientology?

Do your own research, lackwit. This took all
of 20 seconds to type:

http://www.google.com/search?q=american.medical.association+scientology
Results ... about 29,400 for american.medical.association scientology

The second hit says right on the hits page:

"The American Medical Association and the American
Psychological Association questioned the tenets of
Scientology during the 1950s..."
http://www.bartleby.com/65/sc/Scientol.html

> "Hunh! Absolutely nothing!".

Oh, what a surprise, another easily disproved lie
by Pollutka.

Or were we back to talking about your
"significant contributions to humanity"?

That subject rather ran out of gas when your
evasions to providing the truthful answer
("absolutely nothing") [including you trying to
claim that your activities on behalf of _your_
cult, one that seeks out addicts on which to
prey, where you are establishing relationships
with such addicts, should be counted], started
leaving tracks going every direction, like the
ski trails on the beginners' slope.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-21 03:09:39 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 20, 9:17 pm, Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > What does the AMA say about Scientology?
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=[ama]+scientology
> Results ... about 29,400 for [ama] scientology

http://search.ama-assn.org/Search/query.html?qc=public+amnews+pubs&qt=alcoholics+anonymous

146 results found, sorted by relevance

http://search.ama-assn.org/Search/query.html?qc=public+amnews+pubs&qt=scientology

1 results found, sorted by relevance
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-21 07:13:46 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> What does the AMA say about Scientology?

> >http://www.google.com/search?q=[ama]+scientology
> > Results ... about 29,400 for [ama] scientology

> http://search.ama-assn.org/Search/query.html?qc=public+amnews+pubs&qt...
> 146 results found, sorted by relevance

So what? We were talking about your lie that
the AMA has nothing to say about Scientology.

> http://search.ama-assn.org/Search/query.html?qc=public+amnews+pubs&qt...
> 1 results found, sorted by relevance

So you use an inferior search methodology
and think that proves your obvious lie
isn't a lie? Get clinical help.

xanthian.
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-21 08:50:36 UTC
Permalink
"Rev. 11D Meow!" <***@Crack.corn> wrote:

> As evidenced by the massive failure of AMA to be
> able to do anything whatsoever to stop the spread
> of the Supremacy of Scientology, your point is
> moot.

Why do you say that?

I made no contention that the AMA could or would
want to stop Scientology, so your demurrer is what
is void and without form.

Read up-thread and see who dragged the AMA into the
discussion and why.

All I did was prove him a liar, which is becoming
one of the easiest tasks on the planet.

You should try it, it's fun.

xanthian.
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-21 09:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Rev. 11D Meow! wrote:

> I am curious, though.
> What's over in misc.misc?

A very long story, but essentially, since 1990 or
so, I've been posting memo copies of all of my
postings (that I remember to crosspost) there, to
prove a point to some then-troublesome net vandals.

Probably by now they've all died of the kind of
improbable accidents that can only be fueled by
intense stupidity and that win Darwin awards.

> In keeping with this threads subject line,
> 'Beanie & Cecil' ROCK!

Yeah, and when I was a kid, I saw the original,
presumably live, broadcasts in glorious black and
white on the spacious six inch screen.

xanthian.
Rev. 11D Meow!
2008-06-21 17:02:58 UTC
Permalink
"Kent Paul Dolan" <***@well.com> wrote in message
news:g3ihl1$kr1$***@news.albasani.net...
> Rev. 11D Meow! wrote:
>
> > I am curious, though.
> > What's over in misc.misc?
>
> A very long story, but essentially, since 1990 or
> so, I've been posting memo copies of all of my
> postings (that I remember to crosspost) there, to
> prove a point to some then-troublesome net vandals.
>
> Probably by now they've all died of the kind of
> improbable accidents that can only be fueled by
> intense stupidity and that win Darwin awards.
>
> > In keeping with this threads subject line,
> > 'Beanie & Cecil' ROCK!
>
> Yeah, and when I was a kid, I saw the original,
> presumably live, broadcasts in glorious black and
> white on the spacious six inch screen.
>


We had 'color' TV back then.
It only costed $1.00 for a plastic sheet
with light blue across the top,
'flesh tone' in the middle,
and green on the bottom
to lay over the screen.
(David P.)
2008-06-22 00:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> >> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What does the AMA say about Scientology?
> > >http://www.google.com/search?q=[ama]+scientology
> > > Results ... about 29,400 for [ama] scientology
> >http://search.ama-assn.org/Search/query.html?qc=public+amnews+pubs&qt...
> > 146 results found, sorted by relevance
>
> So what? We were talking about your lie that
> the AMA has nothing to say about Scientology.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/268/8/1012?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=alcoholism&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

...the committee agreed to define alcoholism
as a primary, chronic disease with genetic,
psychosocial, and environmental factors
influencing its development and manifestations.
The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is
characterized by impaired control over drinking,
preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of
alcohol despite adverse consequences, and
distortions in thinking, most notably denial.
Each of these symptoms may be continuous
or periodic.

>http://search.ama-assn.org/Search/query.html?qc=public+amnews
+pubs&qt...
> > 1 results found, sorted by relevance
>
> So you use an inferior search methodology

A.A. is a treatment for a disease!
The medical community does lots of
research on diseases!
Scientology is a church!
Another one of your apple/orange parfaits!
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-22 05:46:56 UTC
Permalink
"Rev. 11D Meow!" <***@Crack.corn> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > A.A. is a treatment for a disease!
>
> No it isn't.

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/gi/alcohol.html

Alcoholic Liver Disease
By Howard J. Worman, M. D.

Alcohol abuse is a leading cause of morbidity
& mortality thruout the world. It's estimated
that in the U.S. as many as 10% of men and 3%
of women may suffer from persistent problems
related to the use of alcohol.
[...]
Treatment
The most important measure in the treatment of
alcoholic liver disease is to ensure the total
& immediate abstinence from alcohol. This will
sometimes require admission to an in-patient
medical ward for prophylactic treatment of with-
drawal symptoms such as delirium tremens and
seizures. Treatment of other associated neuro-
logical conditions may also be required. Chronic
alcohol abusers often need treatment w/ vitamins,
especially thiamin, to correct deficiencies that
may have resulted from chronic alcohol abuse.
Intensive medical treatment of the complications
of acute alcoholic hepatitis or cirrhosis is also
sometimes necessary, as is the treatment of
concurrent infectious and/or metabolic disorders.

Once the patient is medically stable, he/she
should receive on-going treatment to ensure
abstinence from alcohol. This often includes a
period of in-patient alcohol rehab followed
by subsequent long-term participation in support
groups such as Alcoholics Anonymous and
possibly continuous out-patient psychiatric care.
Cessation of alcohol use will reverse fatty liver
and alcoholic hepatitis. Although cirrhosis is
irreversible, alcohol abusers who stop drinking
will often have a good prognosis in that
progressive liver deterioration can be avoided.
[...]
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-22 10:53:15 UTC
Permalink
"Rev. 11D Meow!" <***@Crack.corn> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > "Rev. 11D Meow!" <***@Crack.corn> wrote:
> >> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >> > A.A. is a treatment for a disease!
> >> No it isn't.
> >http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/gi/alcohol.html
> > Alcoholic Liver Disease
>
> You're one of those guys...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/business/22indiafood.html

India’s Growth Outstrips Crops

By SOMINI SENGUPTA
Published: June 22, 2008

Jalandhar, India — With the right technology
and policies, India could help feed the world.
Instead, it can barely feed itself.

India’s supply of arable land is second only
to that of the United States, its economy is
one of the fastest growing in the world, and
its industrial innovation is legendary. But
when it comes to agriculture, its output lags
far behind potential. For some staples, India
must turn to already stretched international
markets, exacerbating a global food crisis.

It was not supposed to be this way.

Forty years ago, a giant development effort
known as the Green Revolution drove hunger
from an India synonymous with famine and
want. Now, after a decade of neglect, this
country is growing faster than its ability to
produce more rice and wheat.

The problem has grown so dire that Prime
Minister Manmohan Singh has called for a
Second Green Revolution “so that the
specter of food shortages is banished from
the horizon once again.”

And while Mr. Singh worries about feeding
the poor, India’s growing affluent population
demands not only more food but also a
greater variety.

Today Indian agriculture is a double tragedy.
“Both in rice and wheat, India has a large
untapped reservoir. It can make a major
contribution to the world food crisis,” said
M. S. Swaminathan, a plant geneticist who
helped bring the Green Revolution to India.

India’s own people are paying as well.
Farmers, most subsisting on small, rain-fed
plots, are disproportionately poor, and
inflation has soared past 11 percent, the
highest in 13 years.

Experts blame the agriculture slowdown
on a variety of factors.

The Green Revolution introduced high-
yielding varieties of rice and wheat,
expanded the use of irrigation, pesticides
and fertilizers, and transformed the north-
western plains into India’s breadbasket.
Between 1968 and 1998, the production
of cereals in India more than doubled.

But since the 1980s, the government has
not expanded irrigation and access to loans
for farmers, or to advance agro research.
G r o u n d w a t e r h a s b e e n
d e p l e t e d a t a l a r m i n g
r a t e s .

The Peterson Institute for International
Economics in Washington says changes
in temperature and rain patterns could
diminish India’s agricultural output by 30
percent by the 2080s.

Family farms have shrunk in size and
quantity, and a few years ago mounting
debt began to drive some farmers to
suicide. Now many find it more profitable
to sell their land to developers of industrial
buildings.

Among farmers who stay on their land,
many are experimenting with growing
high-value fruits and vegetables that
prosperous Indians are craving, but there
are few refrigerated trucks to transport
their produce to modern supermarkets.

A long and inefficient supply chain means
that the average farmer receives less than
a fifth of the price the consumer pays, a
World Bank study found, far less than
farmers in, say, Thailand or the U.S.

Surinder Singh Chawla knows the system
is broken. Mr. Chawla, 62, bore witness
to the Green Revolution — and its demise.

Once, his family grew wheat & potatoes
on 20 acres. They looked to the sky for rains.
They used cow manure for fertilizer. Then
came the Mexican semi-dwarf wheat
seedlings that the revolution helped intro-
duce to India. Mr. Chawla’s wheat yields
soared. A few years later, the same
happened with new high-yield rice seeds.

Increasingly prosperous, Mr. Chawla finally
bought his first tractor in 1980.

But he has since witnessed with horror the
ills the revolution wrought: in a common
occurrence here, t h e w a t e r
t a b l e u n d e r h i s l a n d
h a s s u n k b y 1 0 0 f e e t
o v e r 3 d e c a d e s a s h e
& o t h e r f a r m e r s i r r i -
g a t e d t h e i r f i e l d s .

By the 1980s, government investment in
canals fed by rivers had tapered off, and
wells became the principal source of
irrigation, helped by a shortsighted gov't
policy of free electricity to pump water.

Here in Punjab, more than three-fourths
of the districts extract more groundwater
than is replenished by nature.

Between 1980 and 2002, the government
continued to heavily subsidize fertilizers
and food grains for the poor, but reduced
its total investment in agriculture. Public
spending on farming shrank by roughly a
third, according to an analysis of gov't data
by the Ctr for Policy Alternatives in New Delhi.

Today only 40% of Indian farms are irrigated.
“W h e n t h e r e i s n o w a t e r ,
t h e r e i s n o t h i n g ,”
Mr. Chawla said.

And he sees more trouble on the way. The
summers are hotter than he remembers.
The rains are more fickle. Last summer, he
wanted to ease out of growing rice, a water-
intensive crop.

The gains of the Green Revolution have
begun to ebb in other countries, too, like
Indonesia and the Philippines, agriculture
experts say. But the implications in India
are greater because of its sheer size.

India raised a red flag two years ago about
how heavily the appetites of its 1.1 billion
people would weigh on world food prices.
For the first time in many years, India had
to import wheat for its grain stockpile. In two
years it bought about 7 million tons.

Today, two staples of the Indian diet are
imported in ever-increasing quantities
because farmers cannot keep up with
growing demand — pulses, like lentils and
peas, and vegetable oils, the main sources
of protein & calories, respectively, for
most Indians.

“India could be a big actor in supplying food
to the rest of the world if the existing agri-
cultural productivity gap could be closed,”
said Adolfo Brizzi, manager of the South
Asia agriculture program at the World Bank
in Washington. “When it goes to the market
to import, it typically puts pressure on inter-
national market prices, and every time India
goes for export, it increases the supply and
therefore mitigates the price levels.”

In April, in a village called Udhopur, not
far from here, Harmail Singh, 60, wondered
aloud how farmers could possibly be
expected to grow more grain.

“The cultivable land is shrinking and gov't
policies are not farmer friendly,” he said as
he supervised his wheat harvest. “Our next
generation isn't willing to work in agriculture.
They say it is a losing proposition.”

The luckiest farmers make more money
selling out to land-hungry mall developers.

Gurmeet Singh Bassi, 33, blessed with a
farm on the edges of a booming Punjabi city
called Ludhiana, sold off most of his ancestral
land. Its value had grown more than fivefold in
two years. He made enough to buy land in a
more remote part of the state & hire laborers
to till it.

Meanwhile, Mr. Chawla’s neighbors migrated
to North America. They were happy to lease
their land to him, if he was foolish enough to
stay and work it, he said. Today, he cultivates
more than 100 acres.

Last year, on a small patch of that land, he
planted what no one in his village could
imagine putting on their plate: baby corn,
which he learned was being lapped up by
upscale urban Indian restaurants and even
sold abroad.

At the time, baby corn brought a better profit
than the gummint’s price for his wheat crop.

This had been the Green Revolution’s other
pillar — a fixed government price for grain.
A farmer could sell his crop to a private
trader, but for many small tillers, it was far
easier to approach the nearest gummint
granary, and accept their rate.

For years, those prices remained miserably
low, farmers and their advocates complained,
and there was little incentive for farmers to
invest in their crop. “For farmers,” said
Mr. Swaminathan, the plant geneticist, “a
remunerative price is the best fertilizer.”

Mr. Swaminathan’s adage proved true this
year. After two years of having to import
wheat, the gummint offered farmers a
substantially higher price for their grain:
farmers not only planted slightly more
wheat but also sold much more of their
harvest to the state. As a result, by May,
the country’s buffer stocks were at record levels.

Nanda Kumar, India’s most senior bureaucrat
for food, said the country would not need to
buy wheat on the world market this year.
That is good news, for India and the world,
but how long it will remain the case is unclear.

Will greater demand for food & higher market
prices enrich farmers, eventually, encouraging
them to stay on their land? There is potential,
but other conditions, like India’s inefficient
transportation and supply chains, would have
to improve too.

How to address these challenges is a
matter of debate.

From one quarter comes pressure to introduce
genetically modified crops with greater yields;
from another come lawsuits to stop it. And from
yet another come pleas to mount a greener
Green Revolution.

Alexander Evans, author of a recent paper on
food prices published by Chatham House, a
British research institution, said: “This time
around, it needs to be more efficient in its
use of water, in its use of energy, in its use
of fertilizer and land.”

Mr. Swaminathan wants to dedicate villages
to sowing lentils & oilseeds, to meet demand.
The World Bank, meanwhile, favors high-value
crops, like Mr. Chawla’s baby corn, because
they allow farmers to maximize their income
from small holdings.

The market may yet help India. Mr. Chawla,
for instance, has replaced baby corn with
sunflowers, prompted by the high price of
sunflower oil. For the same reason, he is
also considering planting more wheat.
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-19 19:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Every person who has made significant
> > contributions has a Wikipedia page!
> > You don't have one! What's up with that?
> > Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?
>
> I told the person who volunteered to write
> a Wikipedia page about me "no thank you".

Well, maybe they'll add one posthumously.
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-19 19:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> Well, no, _here_ is Kent's summary of "recent"
> accomplishments, published way back in 2003:
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ft7g6
>
> :- Umm, let's count the score again, shall we?
> :- [ . . . [
> :- That's just the tip of the iceberg.

And while you were performing all those
specialties, you were also trying to
look at the big picture?
.
.
--
beelzibub
2008-06-19 19:15:16 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 17, 2:00 am, Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> >> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> you're evading the challenge to produce proof
> >> you've ever done anything worthwhile to benefit
> >> humanity.
> > I've been playing sports for 48 years!
>
> And that evasion has what to do with you ever doing
> anything to benefit humanity?
>
> Anyway, I didn't know that lushing your life away
> was a "sport".
>
> > The world loves sports!
>
> The world loves getting stinking drunk, too. You
> had a point there?
>
> > You haven't played sports for 48 freakin' days!
>
> And once again you lie through your teeth, fool.
>
> Why, oh why do you keep dropping your drawers and
> putting your butt into prime target position for
> getting it kicked, over and over and over again?
>
> That's a rhetorical question, Pollutka. The answer
> is that you are just really that stupid because of
> your long bout with alcoholism.
>
> Sports in which I have competed:
>
> Badminton
> Basketball
> Bowling
> Fencing
> Flag football
> Horseshoes
> Running, distances from sprints to one mile.
> Swimming (breast stroke)
> Tennis
> Volleyball
> Whaleboat racing (team rowing)
> Wrestling
>
> Sports in which I have actively participated, but
> not "competed":
>
> Bicycling
> Fishing, fresh water, ice, and salt water
> Gymnastics -- oh wee!!!
> Hiking
> Hockey
> Hunting (deer, mostly, some rabbits and squirrels)-- MURDERER!!!
> Ice skating
> Long distance running
> Mountain climbing
> Race-walking
> Rowing small boats, paddling canoes
> Sailing small boats
> Scuba diving
> Snorkling
> Target shooting: rifle, pistol, bow-and-arrow
> Weight lifting
knitting
>
> Sports in which I have participated to help others
> compete:
>
> Soccer, as a referee and assistant coach -- i'm giving g you a red/yellow card
> Wrestling, as a publicist and .. HE'S GOING DOWN!!!
setup/tear-down
> laborer
>
> As usual, you lying piece of trash, FOAD.
>
> Meanwhile, you have yet to document any contribution
> by you to the well-being of humankind. So far,
> you've put forward stuff that pretty much anyone who
> breathes, does. Where is your shining contribution
> that makes you think you have a right to tell others
> how to run their lives?
>
> xanthian; I'm sure I've forgotten to put about as
> many sports in those lists as I included.
>
> [I've also played competitive games, including
> contact chess, contact bridge, whist, herts, spades,
> pinochle, gin rummy, canasta, euchre, and lots
> of board games, but those aren't really
> "sports".]
(David P.)
2008-06-21 03:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> Where is your shining contribution
> that makes you think you have a right
> to tell others how to run their lives?

The Golden Rule gives me the right!
If you want to have a voice in your
country's affairs, you have to
allow others the same right!
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-18 18:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > If you want to establish unity, trying
> > to do it by attacking everyone's belief in
> > God is about the worst possible choice!
>
> notice that a great many wars are quarrels
> over whose "god" should prevail, sometimes
> even slaughters over the details of how to
> worship the very same god, as between Sunnis
> and Shiites, & you'll realize that talking the
> brainwashed back out of the "god" belief is
> indeed a good start on reducing war.

But not a good enough pursuit for you
to actively participate in, due to your
commitment to cataloguing comic strips &
galaxies, and spewing insults!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 09:06:09 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> If you want to establish unity, trying to do it
>>> by attacking everyone's belief in God is about
>>> the worst possible choice!

>> notice that a great many wars are quarrels over
>> whose "god" should prevail, sometimes even
>> slaughters over the details of how to worship the
>> very same god, as between Sunnis and Shiites, &
>> you'll realize that talking the brainwashed back
>> out of the "god" belief is indeed a good start on
>> reducing war.

> But not a good enough pursuit for you to actively
> participate in, due to your commitment to
> cataloging comic strips & galaxies, and spewing
> insults!

And again you lie, why is that, what compels you to
lie in almost everything you post, and to lie in
ways so easily proved to be lies? Is it masochism on
your part?

I helped my father publish one (_Religion on Trial,
2nd Edition_) of his well received books promoting
freeing humankind from the god squad, in 2004.

I post extremely frequently to Usenet and its tens
of millions of readers news articles calling to the
attention of participants that gullible reference to
or reliance on a god or gods is the worst kind of
evidence-ignoring insanity,

I am (painfully slowly) transcribing one of the few
remaining copies of another of my father's book
length polemics against religion (_God Did It_) for
eventual Internet publication, et cetera ad "making
how big a liar Pollutka is a matter of public
knowledge"ism.

You object that besides all the good I do for
humankind, I _also_ have a hobby and take care of a
recovering brain tumor surgery patient and read
library books and try to save planet earth from
idiots like you?

It's a pity that all _you_ can do with your life is
stand as a horrible public example of just how
badly alcoholism can destroy a human brain and the
life appended to it.

I don't have that limitation. I'm pretty much your
low grade polymath, and not at all ashamed of it.

I play a lot of spider solitaire, too. Whine about
that for a while, you feeble minded drunk.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-19 18:17:37 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> I'm transcribing my father's book length
> polemics against religion (_God Did It_) for
> eventual Internet publication,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGQyGQVM628
Evelyn Turrentine-Agee- God Did It
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 19:15:47 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>> I'm transcribing my father's book length polemics
>> against religion (_God Did It_) for eventual
>> Internet publication,

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGQyGQVM628
> Evelyn Turrentine-Agee- God Did It

Yep, book titles cannot be copyrighted or
trademarked. You had a point?

Oh, right, your point is that you waste your days
drooling over YouTube videos, while pretending to be
doing good works for addicts, and you want the rest
of the world to be as useless as you are.

See, you claim to be doing one thing, but you prove
that claim to be a lie by documenting with your
postings how you really spend your waking hours
[among additional ways, by how widely spread across
the clock your posting times are].

Nope, not going there, not clicking your
drooling-moron-recommended YouTube links.

xanthian.

The title of my Dad's book is translated from the
Spanish, and is the phrase of resignation used in
Equador when disasters enter the lives of people
there, rather than them looking for personal or
societal problems changing which could reduce the
number and intensity of such disasters. The phrase
and the consequences of its use represent just one
more negative outcome of theistic belief systems.
Rev. 11D Meow!
2008-06-19 23:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Is there a cure for Usenet Trolling Addiction yet?

"Kent Paul Dolan" <***@well.com> wrote in message
news:bb14ee70-cfde-470e-87ef-***@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'm transcribing my father's book length polemics
>>> against religion (_God Did It_) for eventual
>>> Internet publication,
>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGQyGQVM628
>> Evelyn Turrentine-Agee- God Did It
>
> Yep, book titles cannot be copyrighted or
> trademarked. You had a point?
>
> Oh, right, your point is that you waste your days
> drooling over YouTube videos, while pretending to be
> doing good works for addicts, and you want the rest
> of the world to be as useless as you are.
>
> See, you claim to be doing one thing, but you prove
> that claim to be a lie by documenting with your
> postings how you really spend your waking hours
> [among additional ways, by how widely spread across
> the clock your posting times are].
>
> Nope, not going there, not clicking your
> drooling-moron-recommended YouTube links.
>
> xanthian.
>
> The title of my Dad's book is translated from the
> Spanish, and is the phrase of resignation used in
> Equador when disasters enter the lives of people
> there, rather than them looking for personal or
> societal problems changing which could reduce the
> number and intensity of such disasters. The phrase
> and the consequences of its use represent just one
> more negative outcome of theistic belief systems.
>
(David P.)
2008-06-21 04:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGQyGQVM628
> > Evelyn Turrentine-Agee- God Did It
>
> your point is that you waste your days
> drooling over videos, while pretending
> to be doing good works for addicts,

No, I listen to "The Triangle's #1 station
for inspiration", WNNL, 103.9 FM, The Light,
http://www.thelight1039.com/
They keep a log of songs, religiously during
the day & evening, not so at night, at:
http://www.yes.com/?chat?#WNNL?log
so I can find out title & artist easily,
and it only takes a minute to pop over
to youtube to see if it's there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxNqRFBqWzU
Evelyn 'Champagne' King - Shame (1978)


> you claim to be doing 1 thing, but you prove
> that claim a lie by documenting with your
> postings how you really spend your waking hours
> [among additional ways, by how widely spread
> across the clock your posting times are].

No, I worked 3rd shift for 6 years, which
messed up my sleep patterns, so I stay up
most of the night, still, a lot. And if I
have a ballgame, I might come home, eat, then
get sleepy, so I sleep, then wake up after
2-4 hours, then maybe get back to sleep, or
maybe not. I'm all over the map, because
that's what 3rd shift does, at least to me.
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-17 11:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> Remember that neither the League of Nations
> nor the United Nations, each created to
> provide "unity", have done anything to make
> peace on Earth suddenly occur.

It has never been done before,
THEREFORE, it cannot be done?
Neither of those outfits looked at
the big picture, and neither embraced
the Golden Rule! Two big goofs!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-18 00:41:58 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>> Remember that neither the League of Nations nor
>> the United Nations, each created to provide
>> "unity", have done anything to make peace on
>> Earth suddenly occur.

> It has never been done before, THEREFORE, it
> cannot be done?

Not by you, it can't.

Certainly those organizations were founded by highly
intelligent persons, while you go on day after day
here proving that you are a highly stupid person.

If those intelligent persons didn't succeed, there's
exactly zero chance a moron like you has anything to
contribute, much less has a solution. Since the
proposals you put forward as "solutions" are webs of
holes knitted together with skeins of stupidity,
that expectation that you have nothing to contribute
in the way of solutions matches the facts that when
you try to come up with solutions, you contribute
only more stupidity.

> Neither of those outfits looked at the big
> picture,

Bzzzzt! Moron alert! Pollutka has once again proved
that alcoholism doesn't leave one with any trace of
a functional brain.

Now one more time, imbecile, is it _really_ your
contention that neither the League of Nations, nor
the United Nations "looked at the big picture"?

What a fool you are.

> and neither embraced the Golden Rule!

That would be "the Pollutka Golden Rule" of
trolling; lying; violating copyrights; stalking;
attempting to cause planetwide pain, misery, and
death; naggging your father into a premature death
to grab his money; attempting mass murder; et cetera
ad infinitum?

I'm pretty sure they're just as happy not to be
accused of imitating you, not that a pimple on the
butt of the universe like you would ever come to
their attention except on an Interpol most wanted
list.

> Two big goofs!

That would be you being born, and you not suiciding yet?
Bonus goof: you pouring your brains down a bottle.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-18 18:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Neither of those outfits looked at
> > the big picture,
>
> is it really your contention that the
> U.N. didn't look at the big picture?

They allowed or expedited delivery of
advanced med tech to 3rd world countries
when they knew those same countries
wouldn't receive other advanced tech
necessary to support the increased
population!
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 08:29:28 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> Neither of those outfits looked at the big
>>> picture,

>> is it really your contention that the
>> U.N. didn't look at the big picture?

You really are a madman, aren't you?

> They allowed or expedited delivery of advanced med
> tech to 3rd world countries when they knew those
> same countries wouldn't receive other advanced
> tech necessary to support the increased
> population!

I always love you idiots who pretend to have mind
reading as one of your skills. Who says "they knew",
and what part of history says that the spread of
modern agriculture didn't accompany the spread of
modern medicine, both of which were _commercial_
initiatives?

"Advanced medical technology" of the type associated
with population growth was disseminated and can be
seen in population growth tables in 1945, _before_
the UN's World Health Organization came into
existence in 1948, Pollutka. You are, as usual,
lying.

http://www.who.int/wormcontrol/documents/en/HCSIFC.pdf

The only "delivery" the earlier Health Organization
of the League of Nations did prior to that was in
attempting to stop epidemics _anywhere_ whose spread
threatened nations _worldwide_ (and in particular,
the nations that already had modern medical
technology). It did not give itself the charter of
exporting medical technology to the third world:

BULLETIN OF
THE NEW YORK
ACADEMY OF MEDICINE
Vol. 13 AUGUST, 1937 No. 8
THE SCIENTIFIC WORK OF THE HEALTH
ORGANIZATION OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS
THORVALD MADSEN
Harvey Lecture, February 18, 1937

[...]

"It must be remembered that the Organization confines
itself to work of a practical nature and does not
undertake any purely speculative research. It does
not itself deal with practical health problems
unless they are international in character, by
reason either of the nature and extent of the
investigations required or of the measures necessary
to control epidemics."
http://preview.tinyurl.com/4w7byl

What is it that makes fanatics like you incapable of
doing even the minimal checking of facts before
declaring falsehoods to be true? Is it just that you
are both stupid, thus unable to lie well, and
sociopathic, unable to understand that lying is
wrong, or is it that your insane political agenda
blinds you to the necessity to connect your
proposals by any thread at all to reality?

Again, you are lying, inventing facts out of alcohol
burned brain cells to bolster your completely insane
politics-based agenda for disabling prevention of
epidemics rather than using feasible and proven
methods to reverse population growth.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-19 09:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > They allowed delivery of advanced med tech
> > to 3rd world countries when they knew those
> > same countries wouldn't receive other advanced
> > tech necessary to support the increased
> > population!
>
> "Advanced medical technology" of the type associated
> with population growth was disseminated and can be
> seen in population growth tables in 1945, _before_
> the UN's World Health Organization came into
> existence in 1948,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
[...]
Predictions based on our growing population
[...]
On the opposite end of the spectrum there are
a number of people who argue that today's low
fertility rates in Europe, North America, Japan
and Australia, combined with mass immigration,
will have severe negative consequences for
these countries.

Child poverty has been linked to people having
children before they have the means to care for
them. More recently, some scholars have put
forward the Doomsday argument applying
Bayesian probability to world population to argue
that the end of humanity will come sooner than
we usually think.

It should be noted that between 1950 & 1984,
as the Green Revolution transformed agriculture
around the globe, world grain production increased
by 250%. The energy for the Green Revolution was
provided by fossil fuels in the form of fertilizers
(natural gas), pesticides (oil), and hydrocarbon
fueled irrigation. The peaking of world hydrocarbon
production (Peak oil) may test Malthus and Ehrlich
critics. As of May 2008, increased farming for use
in biofuels, world oil prices at over $120 a barrel,
global population growth, climate change, loss of
agricultural land to residential & industrial develop-
ment, and growing consumer demand in China and
India have pushed up the price of grain. Food riots
have recently taken place in many countries across
the world.
[...]
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 09:30:43 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> They allowed delivery of advanced med tech
>>> to 3rd world countries when they knew those
>>> same countries wouldn't receive other advanced
>>> tech necessary to support the increased
>>> population!

>> "Advanced medical technology" of the type
>> associated with population growth was
>> disseminated and can be seen in population growth
>> tables in 1945, _before_ the UN's World Health
>> Organization came into existence in 1948,

And you snipped away the proof from their own
records that the League of Nations had not done any
such thing as you claimed either. What a dishonest
benthic slime you are.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Called out yet again on your lies, this time with
authoritative evidence destroying the entire basis
of your insane "social planning" population control
proposals, you ignore that you have been caught
lying and change the subject, a constant behavior
mode of yours, sociopathic and dishonest. How about
you shut up until you have recovered at least enough
mind to stay on track in a conversation?

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-19 16:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> evidence destroying the entire basis
> of your population control proposals,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

Peak oil
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[...]
Population

Another large factor on petroleum demand
has been human population growth. Oil
production per capita peaked in the 1970s.
The world’s population in 2030 is expected
to be double that of 1980.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_population_history.svg

Some analysts project that people will be
much more oil-dependent than they are now.
Author Matt Savinar predicts that oil
production in 2030 will have declined back
to 1980 levels as worldwide demand for oil
significantly out-paces production.
Physicist Albert Bartlett claims that the
rate of oil production per capita is falling,
and that the decline has gone undiscussed
because a politically incorrect form of
population control may be implied by mitigation.
Oil production per capita has declined from
5.26 barrels per year in 1980 to 4.44 b.p.y.
in 1993, but then increased to 4.79 b.p.y.
in 2005. In 2006, the world oil production
took a downturn from 84.631 to 84.597 million
barrels per day although population has
continued to increase. This has caused the
oil production per capita to drop again to
4.73 barrels per year.

One factor that has so far helped ameliorate
the effect of population growth on demand is
the decline of population growth rate since
the 1970s. In 1970, the population grew at 2.1%.
By 2007, the growth rate had declined to 1.167%.
However, oil production is still outpacing
population growth to meet demand. World
population grew by 6.2% from 6.07 billion in
2000 to 6.45 bill. in 2005, whereas according
to BP, global oil production during that same
period increased from 74.9 to 81.1 million
barrels, or by 8.2%, or according to EIA, from
77.762 to 84.631 million barrels, or by 8.8%.

Agriculture and population limits

Because supplies of oil and gas are essential
to modern agriculture techniques, a fall in
global oil supplies could cause spiking food
prices and unprecedented famine in the coming
decades. Geologist Dale A. Pfeiffer contends
that current population levels are unsustainable,
and that to achieve a sustainable economy &
avert disaster the U.S. population would have
to be reduced by at least one-third, and world
population by 2/3. The largest consumer of
fossil fuels in modern agriculture is fertilizer
production via the Haber process, which is
essential to high perennial corn yields. If a
sustainable non-petroleum source of electricity
is developed, this process can be accomplished
without fossil fuels using methods such as
electrolysis.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 17:15:49 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>> evidence destroying the entire basis of your
>> population control proposals,

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

> Peak oil
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And once again you slide insanely into your moron
repetititive identical non sequitur followup
shovelware posting mode, to avoid confronting your
defeat at your own hand.

Why is that?

No, wait, before you answer, "brain burned drunk,
rapidly turning senile already at age 55" is in the
answer somewhere, right? We already know that part.

Have you been checked recently for brain tumors?

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-21 04:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > The U.N. allowed/expedited delivery of advanced med
> > tech to 3rd world countries when they knew those
> > same countries wouldn't receive other advanced
> > tech necessary to support the increased
> > population!
>
> Who says they knew, and what part of history
> says that the spread of modern agriculture didn't
> accompany the spread of modern medicine, both of
> which were commercial initiatives?

It's one thing to have enough food, a whole
other thing to have an infrastructure in place
with a government civilized enough to allow
the distribution to take place! How many
countries still don't have the infrastructure
and good government?
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-21 06:25:32 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> It's one thing to have enough food, a whole
> other thing to have an infrastructure in place
> with a government civilized enough to allow
> the distribution to take place! How many
> countries still don't have the infrastructure
> and good government?

Yemen -- CIA.GOV factbook
Population:
23,013,376 (July 2008 est.)

Age structure:
0-14 years: 46.2%
15-64 years: 51.2%
65 years and over: 2.6%

Population growth rate:
3.46% (2008 est.)
Birth rate:
42.42 births/1,000 (2008 est.)
Death rate:
7.83 deaths/1,000 (2008 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 62.9 years
male: 60.96 years
female: 64.94 years (2008 est.)

Total fertility rate:
6.41 children born/woman (2008 est.)

Literacy:
definition: age 15 & up can read & write
total population: 50.2%
male: 70.5%
female: 30% (2003 est.)

Economy - overview:
Yemen, one of the poorest countries in the
Arab world, reported average annual growth
in the range of 3-4% from 2000 through 2007.
Its economic fortunes depend mostly on
declining oil resources, but Yemen is trying
to diversify its earnings. In 2006 Yemen began
an economic reform program designed to
bolster non-oil sectors of the economy and
foreign investment. As a result of the program,
international donors pledged about $5 billion
for development projects. In addition, Yemen
has made some progress on reforms over the
last year that will likely encourage foreign
investment. Oil revenues probably increased
in 2007 as a result of higher prices.

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$2,300 (2007 est.)

Unemployment rate:
35% (2003 est.)

Population below poverty line:
45.2% (2003)

Inflation rate (consumer prices):
12.5% (2007 est.)

Roadways:
total: 71,300 km
paved: 6,200 km
unpaved: 65,100 km (2005)


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/21/world/middleeast/21saleh.html

For Yemen’s Leader, a Balancing Act Gets Harder

By ROBERT F. WORTH
Published: June 21, 2008

SANA, Yemen

Pres. Ali Abdullah Saleh’s face is everywhere
in Yemen. He stares out from billboards, shop
windows and living room walls, always with the
same proud expression: eyes glinting, chest
thrust out as if to confront a challenger.
After 30 years in power, Mr. Saleh has become
almost synonymous with the state in this arid,
desperately poor corner of southern Arabia.

But lately the president, 66, known for his
wicked sense of humor, has been uncharac-
teristically dour. A war with northern Shiite
rebels has spread to the outskirts of the
capital. Terrorist attacks have led embassies
and foreign companies to evacuate their
employees. With an insurrection rising in the
south as well, the turmoil has renewed fears
that this conservative Muslim country of 23
million, a longtime haven for jihadists, could
collapse into another Afghanistan.

Mr. Saleh, his gruff voice tinged with anger,
dismissed the rebels as “racists” who want
to return to Yemen’s ancient system of
religious rule. They have won popular
support by associating his government with
the U.S., he said during an hourlong
interview inside the sprawling, high-walled
presidential palace compound.

“At the same time, we are facing attacks
by Al Qaeda,” he said, sitting in a sun-
dappled outdoor gazebo, ringed by advisers
in dark suits. “So we are facing 2 dangers.”

But some critics say one of the greatest
dangers is Mr. Saleh himself. His corruption
& neglect, as well as his history of coddling
Islamic extremists for political support, have
helped fuel the uprising against him, a high-
ranking Yemeni official said, speaking on
condition of anonymity because he feared
retribution.

The president has mastered the art of playing
enemies against one another, his opponents
say, leaving the country in a state of controlled
chaos and doing little to address its desperate
needs: water, education, development. A culture
of corruption has hollowed out government
ministries and damaged the army, which is
struggling to put down a much smaller rebel force.

Mr. Saleh is also accused by critics at home
and abroad of rigging elections and turning
the country into a preserve for members of
his family and tribe, who hold many critical
government positions and control several
important private businesses.

Mr. Saleh dismissed the criticisms. American
officials, he said, view Yemen’s negotiations
with jihadists “as a kind of conspiracy, but this
is a complete misunderstanding.” Yemen’s
willingness to parole some convicted terrorists —
including Jamal al-Badawi, who is wanted by
the United States for his role in the 2000
bombing of the American destroyer Cole —
is not just leniency, but a deliberate strategy
aimed at pacifying and controlling Yemen’s
many jihadists, Mr. Saleh said.

Mr. Saleh lashed out at what he called
American interference in Yemen’s affairs,
saying it had harmed his ability to deal with
terrorism.

“We are wondering why they criticize us,
while when we ask them to hand over our
Yemeni detainees in Guantánamo they put
a lot of conditions on us,” he said.

Mr. Saleh cast himself as a lonely defender
of Yemen’s unity in a tumultuous landscape
of feuding tribes and factions that will not
submit to a sovereign state.

He said the northern Houthi rebels were
racists who wanted to bring back the
religious monarchy that reigned here until
it was overthrown in 1962, an accusation
the rebels deny; Al Qaeda wanted to create
an Islamic emirate; and the riots in the south
were led by Marxists who never accepted
unity with the north.

He rattled off a list of development projects
his government had sponsored in the south,
adding bitterly that die-hard separatists had
rewarded him with rebellion “because we
created comprehensive development” there.

It is true that Yemen’s tribal regions have
long resisted central rule, & that Mr. Saleh
has brought a relative stability. When he
first became North Yemen’s president in
1978, the country had suffered two decades
of civil war and violence. The two presidents
who preceded him had both been assassinated.

Mr. Saleh, a handsome young army officer
from a peasant family, had come from a small
tribe, and was seen as someone who could
be easily manipulated. He won the job by
promising he would keep it for only a few
weeks, one of his peers later wrote.

Instead, he proved shrewder, and perhaps
more ruthless, than his predecessors. He
gradually allowed some democratic structures
to grow, but used a system of patronage to
keep a firm grip on power.

In 1990, he presided over the union of North
Yemen and the Communist south, which had
just lost its Soviet patron. He also welcomed
tens of thousands of Arab fighters returning
from the jihad against the Soviet Union in
Afghanistan, many of whom had been
barred from returning to their home countries.
Four years later, when a brief civil war broke
out, Mr. Saleh sent those Islamist warriors to
fight against the more secular south.

That was the start of a pragmatic relationship
with the militants that would come to trouble
Mr. Saleh’s alliance with the United States.
After the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, fearing
that Yemen could become the target of an
American invasion, he flew to Washington
and promised President Bush that he would
cooperate in the fight against terrorism. He
rounded up thousands of jihadists who had
fought in Afghanistan, & since then Yemen’s
new elite American-trained counterterrorism
forces have captured and killed a number of
militants.

He also angered American officials by freeing
figures like Mr. Badawi and Jaber al-Baneh,
another man wanted by American prosecutors
on terrorism charges. He also maintained
close ties with extremist figures like Abdul
Majid al-Zindani, a popular cleric & political
figure who supported Mr. Saleh in the latest
presidential elections and who was listed as
a “specially designated global terrorist” by
both the U.N. and the U.S. in 2004.

Mr. Saleh defends Mr. Zindani, calling the
American complaints unfair.

“Arrogant,” he says, referring to the Americans.
He pauses, & then says in English: “Cowboys.”

But lately Mr. Saleh’s efforts to manage both
the Americans & the jihadists have foundered.
A series of bombings in the capital aimed at
embassies & other targets have hurt tourism
and pushed many foreigners to flee.

At the same time, the Houthi rebellion, which
had been simmering out of sight in remote
Sada Province since 2004, grew worse, and
reached the margins of the capital. The
rebellion’s aims are murky, but its origins lie
partly with Mr. Saleh’s own policies. The rebels,
who belong to the Zaydi branch of Shiism, grew
out of a religious organization he financed in
Sada in the 1990s to offset hard-line Sunni
religious groups in the same area. When the
Shiite group grew larger, he switched camps
and began supporting its rival.

Now that policy of divide and rule appears to
have run beyond his control. Some current
and former government officials say the rebels
have struck humiliating blows. They have
gained support among Yemeni tribes, and
have bought weapons from the Yemeni military,
which is said to have suffered desertions.

The rebellion now threatens to snowball into
a broader proxy war between Iran and Saudi
Arabia, with troubling sectarian overtones.

Mr. Saleh said the rebellion was under control,
at least in the suburbs outside Sana. But the
stress of dealing with Yemen’s constant
power struggles appears to be taking its toll
on him. He said he had advised his eldest
son, Ahmed, who many Yemenis believe is
being groomed as a successor, not to run
for the office when Mr. Saleh’s current term
as president ends in 2013.

“Ruling Yemen is difficult,” he said wearily.
“I always say, it is like dancing with snakes.”
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-21 07:25:39 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Yemen -- CIA.GOV factbook

So? We have a poor country with a social structure
that makes women brood mare slaves to their husbands.

All that does is prove that the opposite of the well
known way to bring a country to a negative
population growth rate, prosperity and freely
accessible conception control (and that, most
importantly, freely accessible _to women_) has
exactly the expected consequences.

Just as so many times before, you shovelware post
something you are too ignorant to understand,
something which proves the opposite of the position
you are trying to support.

That habit of yours of repeatedly proving yourself
an idiot isn't behavior _I_ would want to be famed
all over Usenet for exhibiting, but hey, if that's
your only hobby...

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-22 00:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Yemen -- CIA.GOV factbook
>
> So? We have a poor country with a social structure
> that makes women brood mare slaves to their husbands.

No, we have a primitive government with
no infrastructure receiving modern med
tech with, predictably, no capacity to
adequately support the increased population,
in the most politically unstable area of
the world!

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9369/

Is Yemen a haven for terrorism?

Yes. Yemen, located at the southern tip of
the Arabian Peninsula, is a poor Muslim
country with a weak central government,
armed tribal groups in outlying areas, and
porous borders, which makes it fertile
ground for terrorists. Its government has
tried to help the U.S. after September 11,
and the State Department calls Yemen “an
important partner in the campaign against
terrorism, providing assistance in the military,
diplomatic, and financial arenas.” But experts
say that terrorists live in Yemen, sometimes
with government approval; Yemen-based
corporations are thought to help fund Osama
bin Laden’s al-Qaeda terrorist network; and
Yemenis affiliated with al-Qaeda have
targeted U.S. interests in Yemen, including
the October 2000 bombing of the navy
destroyer U.S.S. Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden .

Which sorts of terrorists operate in Yemen?

According to the State Dept, al-Qaeda’s
operational structure in Yemen has been
“weakened and dispersed” since 9/11. But
Islamists affiliated with al-Qaeda still maintain
a presence. Bin Laden’s group is thought to
be behind the attack on the Cole, in which
seventeen U.S. sailors died and thirty-nine
were injured. Seventeen suspects—some
thought to have connections to al-Qaeda—
were arrested for the attack, ten of which
escaped in 2003. Although al-Qaeda has
not formally claimed responsibility for the
attack, bin Laden praised those who
“destroyed a destroyer that fearsome people
fear” on a 2001 videotape.

Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are
recognized legal organizations in Yemen
and Hamas maintains offices in the country.
Neither group has engaged in any known
terrorist activities in Yemen , but conduct
fundraising efforts through mosques and
other charitable organizations.

Since the bombing of the Cole, has al-Qaeda
planned other attacks against targets in Yemen?

Yes. In June 2001, local authorities in Yemen
arrested 8 Yemeni veterans of the 1979-89
Afghan war against the Soviets in connection
with a plot to blow up the U.S. embassy in
Sanaa, Yemen ’s capital. In July 2002, an
accidental explosion that killed two al-Qaeda
operatives led to the seizure of 650 pounds
of plastic explosives from a Sanaa warehouse.
A Kuwaiti citizen suspected of ties to al-Qaeda
was arrested in Kuwait and admitted to plotting
the October 2002 bombing of a French oil
tanker off the Yemeni coast. Three American
missionaries were killed in December 2002
in a southern Yemeni village, but it is unclear
if the alleged killer, a local Islamist militant,
had any links to al-Qaeda.

How big an al-Qaeda presence is there in Yemen?

It’s impossible to say precisely, but dozens of
al-Qaeda operatives, including senior officials,
may be at large in Yeme , experts say. Yemen
was second only to Saudi Arabia in being the
source of soldiers for the international Islamist
brigade that fought against Soviet forces in
Afghanistan and that gave birth to al-Qaeda.
Thousands—perhaps tens of thousands—of
Yemenis fought in Afghanistan or trained in
al-Qaeda’s camps there. Yemeni officials say
that not every Yemeni veteran of the war in
Afghanistan is an al-Qaeda member; never-
theless, Yemeni prisoners make up one of
the largest national contingents of detainees
at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba .

Does al-Qaeda have training camps in Yemen?

Al-Qaeda reportedly had several major training
camps in Yemen until the late 1990s, when the
Yemeni gov't uprooted them. U.S. officials say
there may be a few smaller ones left.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-21 07:17:30 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 20, 9:34 pm, "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> > "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > The U.N. allowed/expedited delivery of advanced med
> > > tech to 3rd world countries when they knew those
> > > same countries wouldn't receive other advanced
> > > tech necessary to support the increased
> > > population!
>
> > Who says they knew, and what part of history
> > says that the spread of modern agriculture didn't
> > accompany the spread of modern medicine, both of
> > which were commercial initiatives?

> It's one thing to have enough food, a whole
> other thing to have an infrastructure in place
> with a government civilized enough to allow
> the distribution to take place!   How many
> countries still don't have the infrastructure
> and good government?

You failed entirely to answer the question asked,
or to confront that, yet again, you were caught
lying through your teeth.

Try again, or admit you can't. Your evasions are
just that, over, and over, and over again.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-21 04:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> attempting to cause planetwide pain,
> misery, and death;

No, the pain, misery & death will come
by itself as we approach 9 billion,
with no plan for sustainability!
.
.
--
Scott Dorsey
2008-06-20 02:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Rev. 11D Meow! <***@Crack.corn> wrote:
>Is there a cure for Usenet Trolling Addiction yet?

It is called the "killfile" and it was introduced I believe with version 2.0
of rn. I find it highly effective, until someone replies to one of the trolls.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-20 08:09:40 UTC
Permalink
***@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Rev. 11D Meow! <***@Crack.corn> wrote:

>> Is there a cure for Usenet Trolling Addiction yet?

I was hoping the response would mention self-applied
steel jacketed rifle ammunition, but disappointment
is just an unavoidable part of life, I suppose.

> It is called the "killfile" and it was introduced
> I believe with version 2.0 of rn. I find it
> highly effective, until someone replies to one of
> the trolls.

Yeah, I used to have a killfile regular expression
that junked articles with too many commas in the
Newsgroups line. That worked very nicely.

xanthian, not using killfiles any more, I don't need
them with modern newsreading technology.
(David P.)
2008-06-21 03:12:53 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> Remember in your claims that such a plan is
> a meaningful contribution, that neither the
> League of Nations nor the U.N., each created
> to provide "unity", have done anything to
> make peace on Earth suddenly occur.

Dolan's Theorem:
"It has never been done before,
therefore, it cannot be done!"
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-17 11:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Our common welfare should come first;
> > peace depends upon unity!
>
> So, by your continued evasions, I'm understanding
> that your estimate of your value to the human
> species remains "absolutely worthless".

Attack the man instead of the message?
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-18 00:47:47 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> Our common welfare should come first;
>>> peace depends upon unity!

>> So, by your continued evasions, I'm understanding
>> that your estimate of your value to the human
>> species remains "absolutely worthless".

> Attack the man instead of the message?

Was that you evading the challenge to prove that
you have made any significant contribution to
humankind, yet again? I've lost track, are you
over a dozen evasions of that challenge just in
this one thread?

And oh, no, moron, I attack you _and_ your
moron's self-serving message. Neither you nor
your messages have ever made any significant
contribution to humankind.

HTH

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-18 18:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > Attack the man instead of the message?
>
> No, I attack you and your message.
> Neither you nor your messages have ever
> made any contribution to humankind.

What significant contribution did Einstein
make before his 1905 publication?

What significant contribution did Charles
Goodyear make before his discovery of
vulcanization?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Brothers
[...]
The only photos of the flights of 1904-1905
were taken by the brothers. (A few photos were
damaged in the Great Dayton Flood of 1913,
but most survived intact.) In 1904 Ohio bee-
keeping businessman Amos Root, a technology
enthusiast, saw a few flights incl. the first
circle. Articles he wrote for his beekeeping
magazine were the only published eyewitness
rpts of the Huffman Prairie flights, except for
the unimpressive early hop local newsmen saw.
Root offered a report to Scientific American
magazine, but the editor turned it down. As a
result, the news was not widely known outside
of Ohio, and was often met with skepticism.
The Paris ed. of the Herald Tribune headlined
a 1906 article on the Wrights "FLYERS OR LIARS?"

In years to come Dayton newspapers would
proudly celebrate the hometown Wright brothers
as national heroes, but the local reporters some-
how missed one of the most important stories
in history as it was happening a few miles from
their doorstep. James M. Cox, publisher at that
time of the Dayton Daily News (later governor of
Ohio and Democratic presidential nominee in
1920), expressed the attitude of newspapermen—
and the public—in those days when he admitted
years later, "Frankly, none of us believed it."
A few newspapers published articles about the
long flights, but no reporters or photographers
had been there. The lack of splashy eyewitness
press coverage was a major reason for disbelief
in Washington, D.C. and Europe and in journals
like Scientific American, whose editors doubted
the "alleged experiments" and asked how U.S.
newspapers, "alert as they are, allowed these
sensational performances to escape their notice."
.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 08:47:24 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> Attack the man instead of the message?

>> No, I attack you AND your message.
>> Neither you nor your messages have ever made any
>> [significant] contribution to humankind.

> What significant contribution did Einstein make
> before his 1905 publication?

> What significant contribution did Charles Goodyear
> make before his discovery of vulcanization?

:- The Crackpot Index
[...]
:- 1 point for every statement that is widely
:- agreed on to be false.
:- 2 points for every statement that is clearly
:- vacuous.
:- 3 points for every statement that is logically
:- inconsistent.
:- 5 points for each such statement that is adhered
:- to despite careful correction.
:- 5 points for using a thought experiment that
:- contradicts the results of a widely accepted
:- real experiment.
:- 5 points for each mention of "Einstien",
:- "Hawkins" or "Feynmann".
:- 10 points for pointing out that you have gone to
:- school, as if this were evidence of sanity.
:- 10 points for each favorable comparison of
:- yourself to Einstein, ...

I'm sure everyone but you already gets the idea
and can find examples from you in this very thread
with which to estimate your score, without me
continuing to cut and paste from Dr. Baez' famous
work:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

xanthian.
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-17 00:06:52 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

> peace depends upon unity!

Apparently the god squad isn't going to get us
there:

"Candidates: Stop misusing religion"
[..]
"The problem is that the candidates have used
religion as a divisive tool, instead of a
unifying power." The Christian Science Monitor
http://preview.tinyurl.com/489tl5

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-17 02:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > peace depends upon unity!
>
> Apparently the god squad isn't going
> to get us there:
>
> "Candidates: Stop misusing religion"
> [..]
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/489tl5

http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=2378

The Atheist Leap of Faith
By Chuck Colson, 12/31/07

Atheists, God, and Reason

In a recent issue of Scientific American, arch-
Darwinist Richard Dawkins and physicist
Lawrence Krauss discussed the relationship
between science and religion.

Dawkins, whose latest book, The God Delusion,
is only one of a slew of recent books attacking
religious beliefs, prefers an “in your face”
approach. He once wrote that “if you meet
somebody who claims not to believe in evolution,
that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane.” He then
added “or wicked, but I’d rather not consider that.”

In his discussion with Krauss, Dawkins stood by
his statement, calling it “a simple and sober
statement of fact.”

For his part, Krauss prefers to “reach out” to
people and “understand where they are coming
from”—not so that he might learn from them: Like
Dawkins, he assumes that the people in question
have little, if anything, to teach him. Rather, his
goal is to “seduce” them into “understanding”
and accepting scientific truths.

Thus Krauss says that “telling people . . . that
their deepest beliefs are simply silly—even if
they are” is counterproductive.

As you may have inferred from the “even if they
are,” Krauss does not deny that religious belief
is “irrational.” He simply thinks that religion is
too deeply ingrained to be done away with.
Better to help people “moderate” their beliefs
and “cut out the most irrational and harmful
aspects of religious fundamentalism.”

All of this begs the question: “Is faith, in
particular, Christianity, irrational?”

Neither Dawkins nor Krauss comes close to
proving this. Instead, Dawkins and Krauss
simply assume that materialism—the idea
that there is nothing besides matter—is true.
Thus, what makes a faith “rational” is whether
it can be proven empirically.

Dawkins and Krauss do not offer any argu-
ments to justify their assumptions. They do
not tell us why materialism is true: Instead,
they ask you to take its truth as a given—in
other words, on faith.

Speaking of faith, what Dawkins means by
the word faith is, to put it politely, idiosyncratic.
His technique, on display in the Scientific
American piece, is to find the most extreme,
fringe Christian positions and ascribe them
to all Christians. He then cites these beliefs
as proof that all Christian faith is irrational.

Reading their discussion or anything else
associated with Dawkins and what is being
called the “New Atheism,” you would not know
that many of the greatest scientific discoveries
were made by people of faith—not scientists
who happened to be Christians, but people
whose faith inspired and informed their
scientific endeavors.

The work of physicists like Krauss would not
be possible without Michael Faraday’s work
in electromagnetism. Faraday was a devout
Christian who believed nature to be intelligible
because it was created and upheld by a God
who made Himself known in both His Word
and in nature.

Rodney Stark, the eminent sociologist, writes
that Christianity rescued reason. Christians
saw reason as a gift of a rational God, and it
could, therefore, be used to explore the
universe and world that God had made. This
belief made modern science possible.

If you meet someone who says your Christian
faith is irrational, ask him to explain the basis
of his faith.


http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=6841

A New Breed of Atheist
By Chuck Colson 8/2/07

The Anti-Theist

Atheism has nearly always been with us in
one form or another, but the atheists we’ve
been hearing the most from lately—chiefly
Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and
Sam Harris—are a new breed. Unlike the
old-school humanists, the new atheists—or
anti-theists, as some of them prefer to be
called—don’t want to just deny the existence
of God, they want to wipe religion off the map.

Christopher Hitchens follows this pattern with
his new book, belligerently titled God Is Not
Great: How Religion Poisons Everything. In
his first chapter, called “Putting It Mildly,”
Hitchens writes, “I will continue to [respect my
friends’ religious traditions] without insisting
on the polite reciprocal condition—which is
that they in turn leave me alone.”

But this is something that religion is ultimately
incapable of doing. “People of faith,” Hitchens
continues, “are in their different ways planning
your and my destruction, and the destruction
of all . . . hard-won human attainments. . . .
Religion poisons everything.”

The way Hitchens lumps all religions and all
believers into one category here is typical of
his tone throughout the book, and typical of
anti-theists in general. They don’t argue; they
yell. They’ve decided that, simply because
they dislike religion, there is no reason to
respect it. In their minds, it’s stupid, dangerous,
and that’s all that needs to be said.

That’s why I believe the anti-theist movement,
as hot as it is right now with books like Hitchens’s
topping the bestseller lists, is doomed to fail.
The moment you take it seriously and start to
study it, it falls apart. There’s no substance,
just anger and a lot of hot air. Because anti-
theists simply ignore evidence and arguments
they don’t like, they’re ill-equipped to deal with
them rationally.

The old-guard secular humanists are questioning
this new trend, and rightly so. Most traditional
atheists simply had their own belief system, and
if we wanted our belief system that was okay.
The new breed reflects the death of truth. They’re
like the communists who feared religion more
than anything else because it was a competing
truth claim. The Star of David and the cross have
been scandalous to every totalitarian leader.

Many traditional atheists and humanists seem to
recognize the parallel and feel uncomfortable
about it. As Gary Wolf writes in Wired, “The New
Atheists have castigated fundamentalism and
branded even the mildest religious liberals as
enablers of a vengeful mob. Everybody who
doesn’t join them is an ally of the Taliban.”

“Even those of us who sympathize intellectually,”
he writes, “don’t want the New Atheists to succeed.”

When you think about it this way, you have to
wonder if the anti-theists, in their heart of hearts,
are a little uncomfortable with their own beliefs.
After all, if you really believe that truth will win out—
and to Hitchens and company, their idea of truth
is so obvious that it cannot fail to win—you can
let other people make their own claims and live
by their own beliefs without feeling the need to
destroy everything they stand for.

Because Hitchens and the others cannot do this,
their polemics are destined to lead not to the end
of religion, but to the collapse of their own
movement. Not before, of course, they have
gotten very rich. It’s not irrelevant to the debate
that Dawkins, Hitchens, and Sam Harris sold
one million copies of their angry diatribes last
year. At two dollars a book for royalties, that’s
not bad.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-17 06:07:31 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 16, 7:55 pm, "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> peace depends upon unity!

>> Apparently the god squad isn't going to get us
>> there:

>> "Candidates: Stop misusing religion"
>> [..]
>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/489tl5

> The Atheist Leap of Faith
> By Chuck Colson, 12/31/07

Ah, yes, the Watergate criminal who was brainwashed
in prison into beliefs as bizarre as the ones you
got when brainwashed in AA? Not a great choice of
authority figures, Pollutka. Try to remember, no
argument from literature or specious logic is ever
going to prove the existence of a god or gods. If
you claim you've got one/several, trot
him/her/it/them out.

Otherwise, you're just self proved a liar, so shut
up on the subject.

xanthian.
trog69
2008-06-17 09:14:55 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 16, 11:07 pm, Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 7:55 pm, "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> >> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>> peace depends upon unity!
> >> Apparently the god squad isn't going to get us
> >> there:
> >> "Candidates: Stop misusing religion"
> >> [..]
> >>http://preview.tinyurl.com/489tl5
> > The Atheist Leap of Faith
> > By Chuck Colson, 12/31/07
>
> Ah, yes, the Watergate criminal who was brainwashed
> in prison into beliefs as bizarre as the ones you
> got when brainwashed in AA? Not a great choice of
> authority figures, Pollutka. Try to remember, no
> argument from literature or specious logic is ever
> going to prove the existence of a god or gods. If
> you claim you've got one/several, trot
> him/her/it/them out.
>
> Otherwise, you're just self proved a liar, so shut
> up on the subject.
>
> xanthian.

Yeah, nevermind the fact that Colson is still on the forefront of
exclusionary Christian indoctrination to captive audiences in prisons
in the US. The courts keep knocking his ass down, but he won't give up
the fight of forcing inmates to pretend to conversion so that they
receive special privileges in prison, and early releases out.
(David P.)
2008-06-17 11:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've said many times I was a programmer for 10+
> > years, and then worked 3rd shift at the local
> > detox for 6 years.
>
> Luring the unwary into the AA cult?

http://www.rtpnet.org/freedom/

No, customers who have insurance typically
get detoxed the the hospital. Those who
don't get sent to the Freedom House for
medical (alcoholism) or social (crack) detox.
We monitor vital signs, dispense medications
if needed, try to determine how serious the
customer is about getting recovered, and
help in post-detox placement. We had AA
and NA meetings until the Feds changed
the HIPAA rules about residential facilities.
When the new buildings are done, they'll
probably be back, in the community hall.
No atheist groups ever showed up to help
with anything.


> So, you're in your 40s, & you have at most
> 10 years of employment to show for your life?

No, I'm 55. I worked (in Boston) at Samuel Ward
Mfg. Co., the Algonquin Club, Period Furniture
Hardware Co. Back in Cleveland, I worked at
Universal Rack & Equipment Co. for 9 years.
Dennis Palik, the president, said he hated to
see me go--I was his best employee ever.
I attended the Control Data Institute (renamed
Cleveland Institute of Technology) for 6 or 8
months to get a certificate (had the highest
score ever on the entrance exam). So what?
Are you going to demand a resume from everyone
who offers an opinion on public policy?


> No wonder you wanted to kill off your dad
> with flu so you could snaffle his inheritance
> before he carelessly spent it all on himself.
> You must have been dead broke and sinking fast.

Nope. I've _never_ been broke.
.
.
--
(David P.)
2008-06-17 11:37:27 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've said many times I was a programmer
> > for 10+ years, and then worked 3rd shift at
> > the local detox for 6 years.
>
> Yeah, I remember all that. You couldn't show a
> single bit of usable output or contribution to the
> well-being of humankind from your programming
> "career",

I have a pension coming to me from FedEx.
They must've appreciated _something_.
BLOOOOOOOW HARRRRRRRRDERRRRRRRR !!


> and your "work at the detox center" is just
> you gulling still more debased drunks into
> the AA brainwashing dumbed down god cult
> that warped your own mind beyond function.

http://www.rtpnet.org/freedom/
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-18 01:00:12 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

> I have a pension coming to me from FedEx.

> They must've appreciated _something_.

Oh, yes, your "significant contribution" to humanity
is getting a disability pension for being a drunk?

Or is it "came to work for a really long time"?

I'll just notice that a 55 year old with a broken
work history like yours doesn't have an earned
pension anywhere that would be paying out at age 55,
so you've got another of your moronic, easily
detected lies buried in there somewhere.

You're too stupid to play this game, Pollutka.

I may have mentioned that a few times.

Is it your functional illiteracy that keeps you from
taking the hint, or just your stupidity?

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-18 03:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > I have a pension coming to me from FedEx.
> > They must've appreciated _something_.
>
> a 55 year old with a work history like
> yours doesn't have an earned pension
> that would be paying out at age 55,

No, it pays out at age 62.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-18 05:59:54 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>> I have a pension coming to me from FedEx.

>> a 55 year old with a work history like yours
>> doesn't have an earned pension that would be
>> paying out at age 55,

> No, it pays out at age 62.

Yep, you lied again.

The non-lie would have read: "I have a pension which
will be coming to me from FedEx when I reach age
62." But that's not what you said, is it? You used
the present tense, in yet another of your
intellectually dishonest attempts to mislead the
readers.

>>> They must've appreciated _something_.

FedEx, if they'd "appreciated" you, would _still_
be your employer.

Instead, you're just another faceless blip in the
pension plan they run, a bean counted only by some
computer somewhere, a total nonentity, an exact
match for your position in the rest of the universe.

You're 55, and you haven't YET made a significant
contribution to humankind? That's rather stunning,
when you consider that my letter at age 12 to a
fusion power researcher contained new ideas (using
lasers to trigger hydrogen fusion) which are _still_
under active development.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-18 16:32:00 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I have a pension coming to me from FedEx.
> > it pays out at age 62.
>
> The non-lie would have read: "I have a pension which
> will be coming to me from FedEx when I reach age
> 62." But that's not what you said, is it?

I said it's coming. Didn't say when.
That's not a lie.


> >>> They must've appreciated _something_.
>
> FedEx, if they'd appreciated you, would
> still be your employer.

No, the location was moved, and I didn't
want to relocate back to Ohio.
YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN, AS USUAL.


> You're 55, & haven't made a significant
> contribution to humankind? That's rather
> stunning -- my letter at age 12 to a
> fusion power researcher contained new ideas
> which are still under development.

And prior to that letter you HADN'T
MADE A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO
HUMANKIND?!?
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 07:22:27 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>>>> I have a pension coming to me from FedEx.

You can use "<noun1> coming <time indicator>"
possibly to mean "future tense", as in "fire coming
at dawn", but you can't use "<noun1> coming from
<noun2>" to indicate "future tense", in that form it
indicates "<noun1>'s source is <noun2>", like "the
cels coming from _Alladin_" so your lie is and
remains a lie.

>>> it pays out at age 62.

>> The non-lie would have read: "I have a pension
>> which will be coming to me from FedEx when I
>> reach age 62." But that's not what you said, is
>> it?

> I said it's coming. Didn't say when. That's not
> a lie.

Well, yes it is, as explained above. In the form you
used "coming', there was no "when-concept" involved,
just an "origin-concept". That makes your claim a
claim that the pension is coming to you _now_, which
is a falsehood.

Were you not the brain burned drunk you are, any of
the following would have been a non-lie phrasing you
could easily have found, none using even one extra
word:

a pension upcoming from FedEx
a pension forthcoming from FedEx
a pension imminent from FedEx

Instead you attempted to pass an ambiguous statement
off _as if_ your current solvency were due to
someone appreciating you with _current income_, but,
as usual, you were too stupid to accomplish your
intended lie, and got caught by me.

This word choice stuff to replace your lie-freighted
"coming" is all explained for those intelligent
enough to use a dictionary or to have a modestly
accurate grasp of their own language, here:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/upcoming
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forthcoming
http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=impending

and see the discussion about "why 'impending'"
here:

http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?word=Imminent

>>>>> They must've appreciated _something_.

You prove this lie by you to be a lie, directly
below.

>> FedEx, if they'd appreciated you, would
>> still be your employer.

> No, the location was moved, and I didn't
> want to relocate back to Ohio.

So the "appreciation" you claimed to exist was no
such thing, it was simply a vesting of your existing
pension's present value for future payout, due to a
plant move that paid absolutely no attention to you
as a person, and was most likely performed by a
computer not even in any sense _capable_ of
appreciating you.

Once again, simply due to you being so stupid you
cannot lie consistently, and so stupid you post
materials directly contradicting your prior
positions, you've been caught in a lie yet _again_.

> YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN, AS USUAL.

Well, no, that's just you waving your baboon's blue
butt in the air and assuming the "kick me" position
yet again.

>> You're 55, & haven't made a significant
>> contribution to humankind? That's rather
>> stunning -- my letter at age 12 to a
>> fusion power researcher contained new ideas
>> which are still under development.

> And prior to that letter you HADN'T
> MADE A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO
> HUMANKIND?!?

You have a point, drunk, that anticipates
significant contributions are expected from a child
under 12 years of age?

I'm 64, have never been addicted to anything
stronger than caffeine, and because I didn't burn
away my birth intelligence, have made more
contributions to humankind than will comfortably fit
in a long posting (see a copy, else-thread, of a
subset list); you're an alcoholic, so brain damaged
by a long history of boozing you not only have never
done anything worth counting as a "significant
contribution to humankind", not only will never do
anything worth counting as a "significant
contribution to humankind", but are so stupid you
are not even capable of understanding what such a
"significant contribution to humankind" would look
like, and so are throwing up random garbage like
sports participation and claiming it to be somehow
your "significant contribution to humankind".

Give it up, Pollutka, you're not only too stupid
to win, you're getting to be too boring to read, and
will soon have the last word without it being any
kind of a win by you because even I can't be
bothered to read any more of your lame, evasive, non
sequitur responses.

So, since you're still evading proving your worth to
humankind, we are still agreed that it measures out
at "absolutely nothing"?

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-19 08:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
>
> I'm 64, have made more contributions to
> humankind than will comfortably fit
> in a long posting...

Every person who has made significant
contributions has a Wikipedia page!
You don't have one! What's up with that?
Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 09:09:49 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:

>> I'm 64, have made more contributions to
>> humankind than will comfortably fit
>> in a long posting...

> Every person who has made significant
> contributions has a Wikipedia page!
> You don't have one!  What's up with that?
> Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?

Your obsessive compulsive disorder, repetitive
cut and paste non sequitur followups to news
articles, and general lack of good judgment
are showing again, Pollutka. You should pull
up your pants.

xanthian.
(David P.)
2008-06-18 20:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Kent Dorfman <***@flounder.com> wrote:
>
> You're 55, and you haven't YET made a significant
> contribution to humankind? That's rather stunning,
> when you consider that my letter at age 12 to a
> fusion power researcher contained new ideas (using
> lasers to trigger hydrogen fusion) which are _still_
> under active development.

Every person who has made significant
contributions has a Wikipedia page!
You don't have one! What's up with that?
Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan
2008-06-19 09:07:26 UTC
Permalink
"(David P.)" <***@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Every person who has made significant
> contributions has a Wikipedia page!
> You don't have one!  What's up with that?
> Overinflated view of yourself, perhaps?

Your insanity is showing again, Pollutka,
if you ascribe to Wikipedia any kind of
authority whatever.

xanthian.
beelzibub
2008-06-19 19:04:38 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 12, 6:35 am, Kent Paul Dolan <***@well.com> wrote:
> In:http://groups.google.com/group/talk.bizarre/msg/26e5b92777501d6f
>
> David James Polewka wrote:
> > Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
> >> Now one more time, what _useful_ have you done in
> >> the last, say, 20 years?
> > Pooh pooh to you, too, windbag!
>
> We will take your failure to provide a substantive answer
> as an admission taken paraphrased from the song "War".
>
> "War. Hunh!"
>
> What is Pollutka good for?
>
> "Absolutely nothing!".
>
> HTH
>
> xanthian.

... atleast he has the RESPECT to post LIN Ks to his boring shit so
one has the OPTION to read if they choose or by pas it for more
interesting stuff. unlike other posters, who remain anonymous <grin>
that post screen fulls of shit that OTHERS must wade through inorder
to get to the good shit.

b
ps;
yeah, i'm off my meds
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